Narrator: Welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project – unique perspectives, practical insights and unexpected discoveries directly focused on giving you the unfair advantage. Introducing your hosts Nadia Hughes and Terence Toh.
Terence: Welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project, I’m Terence Toh. I’m the founder and managing director of StrategiQ Corporation and I’ll be one of your hosts today. And we’ve got…
Nadia: Nadia Hughes and I’m from Smart Business Solutions. And I’m so happy to be here because Jacki said yes to us.
Terence: And today, so we’re welcoming Jackie Mitchell onto the podcast and Jackie has her own podcast and radio show called Taking Care of Business. Jacki is a brand profiler, business-thought leader. And she also has, well there’s a few things that Jacki does actually, but I’m sure we’ll learn more about it. But she’s also involved in a company called Brainstorm Marketing. So, how are you Jacki?
Jacki: This is going to be good fun. Thank you for asking.
Nadia: You’re welcome.
Terence: We’re all excited already.
Jacki: It is always important to ask. Over, with the radio and radio show that I do. It’s been 16 years now. I’ve interviewed over 1,000 business experts so I was trying to figure out how many. I was trying to celebrate the fifth year. So, then I wonder how many people I’ve interviewed. Anyway, counted it, it was a thousand. And I’ve gone oh that’s really cool. And then I thought, because I’ve got a background in market research as well, and I thought to myself wonder if there’s any common threads or patterns. For the thousand people that are mostly successful business people, they’re all saying the same thing. Success leaves clues right? So, what would that be? And it’s a really popular talk that I do with some keynoting in seminar work I do. And, but the number one I know you’re dying to know and number one is…
Nadia: Yes yes please come on.
Terence: Can we just start it like at number 10 and work backward?
Nadia: I will pull out the chair.
Jacki: Doesn’t have to do the chase, right? Just cut… Just ask. It was number one. Just ask.
Jacki: So, it’s amazing by asking what can happen. So, I was interviewing this lady about her new book and it was about cultivating curiosity. And I thought I need someone, some other people on the show. And I noticed in the front of her book that she had a testimonial by Seth Godin which we’d all know. You know Seth Godin? Great, great thinker. Great thought leader. Wonderful. He has written some incredible books. So, I’ll sent him an email. I don’t know him, I’ll just ask. So, I just went onto his website and found his email address and send him email. Two hours later get an email back from him. He said Alas, which I loved that actually Seth would say Alas, Alas I do not do radio anymore. But he was very honoured to be asked. And again it proves just to ask.
Jacki: It’s amazing what can happen.
Terence: And what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen?
Nadia: That’s me. To overcome the hesitation of asking, I’d go the worst can happen they will say no. Can I take no? Yes because I already have it. At this point of time…
Jacki: You’ve started with that, right?
Nadia: I only can come back to it.
Jacki: Yeah it’s a real mindset. I really don’t know if it’s Australian culture or what it is but we get, I don’t know, nervous or embarrassed to ask.
Nadia: Well that’s where I have advantage over you guys because I’m Russian. And I so used to know that it doesn’t hurt me anymore.
Terence: Russians are very direct and Nadia is. She could be accused of being direct.
Nadia: I’m direct on steroids.
Jacki: Yeah it was. I like that because you don’t have to second guess what she’s thinking or saying and it saves a lot of time. It’s a personality style. Actually you given me an idea, maybe I need to start practicing some accents.
Nadia: Many tried, a few failed. Can you take it?
Jacki: Anyway, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to…
Nadia: But Jacki you do have accent.
Jacki: Australian accent.
Nadia: Ofcourse. And it’s strong.
Jacki: Good. Fifth generation Australian I would hope it would be.
Nadia: Yes. So, we both have strong accent let’s jazz it.
Jacki: Yeah. Let’s go for it. Yeah.
Terence: All right. So, after that, that was one hell of an introduction. So Jacki, you’re a little bit of an expert on branding?
Jacki: I am and can I go back to that introduction?
Jacki: That was sort of, I suppose, me illustrating a point. Because it’s about having a startling statement. So, I know a lot of your listeners are business owners and entrepreneurs and they get to speak a lot. Now whether that speaking in front of your staff, your team. Whether you’re speaking at networking events, whether you’re speaking at conferences or seminars, podcasts, media interviews. It doesn’t matter whether you’re writing or whether it’s verbal or written, but it’s got to have that what I call a startling opening statement or a startling statement. Because getting people’s attention these days is really difficult, really difficult. And most people start a speech. Hi! Thanks for having me. It’s the same thing over and over and over again. And if you watch TED Talks. The really good TED Talks, not the TED Exes but the TED Talks. And they have 18 minutes so they’ve actually just introduced one with a shorter version which I think is a great idea. But the 18 minutes, and straight off the bat they’re not into it. They are into it. So, getting that first bit, that startling statement, that opening getting them in, is really important I think.
Terence: You hear someone like Gary V?
Terence: You probably know him.
Terence: He talks about trading attention. And so, that whole attention factor that you’ve just gone straight to is so important. What’s you’re startling statement? I mean if you’re presenting in front of him.
Jacki: I just do it.
Terence: That was it.
Jacki: I was one of those.
Terence: Is it different every time?
Nadia: Terence wants to put you for TED Talks and your TED Talks will be?
Jacki: Oh no, I don’t think I’m up for a TED Talk. Yes. I’ve thought about it of course but now I’ve just got to pick one or two topics. And there’s so many I’m into at the moment. So, I’ve just got to pick one that really resonates with me. But interesting when Terence mentioned attention, that’s one of my top three. Because I think it’s the most undervalued resource that there is, particularly from a business and particularly from a marketing, specifically from marketing perspective. And I don’t think attention’s talked enough about. We keep hearing about engagement. But you can’t have engagement without attention. Unless you can get someone’s attention, you can’t do anything. Nothing’s going to work. So, you’ve got to start with that.
Terence: Do you think it’s undervalued or misunderstood?
Jacki: Both. But I think it’s an undervalued resource.
Terence: Yeah okay.
Nadia: But I also think it’s misused as well because people cry for attention and they get despeate. They attract attention but the wrong type of attention. And then there is a famous phrase from the Madagascar now I watched “what what kind of attention do you want?” This is what you are about, you are about branding and grabbing the right attention. So, you’re coaching attention.
Jacki: Nice segway Nadia. Yes, it’s all about designing it. So, you’re right. You can create attention and is it the right attention? So, it’s about strategically thinking about okay I’ve got someone’s attention, I know how to do that. Once I’ve got it, what’s next? What am I trying to tell them? What am I trying to sell? Now that selling doesn’t necessarily have to be a product. It can be a message. It can be a concept. It can be lots of things that you’re selling. And so understanding what it is once you’ve got someone’s attention. And you’ve got someone’s attention you’ve got one minute, what is it you want to say? So, choose wisely. It’s always my advice. And that’s where the, your corporate brand or your corporate character and professional brand. It’s about designing that. Because by default, yes us as human beings and all the latest neuroscience research which is another area of passion of mine, is getting all the latest evidence-based research from neuroscience and translating that. I’m not clever enough to find a cure for dementia or post-traumatic stress syndrome or anything like that. But what fascinates me with the neuroscience is how we can apply that to human behaviour and how that then can be transmitted to customer behaviour. So, what can we do to work with the brain not against it? And I think that this is where the attention comes into it. But also that first impression like that first impressions count, yes they do. So, what happens is our brain without boring anyone too much with the science really simplistically is divided into three regions. So, the first region is what is called the old brain and that’s what was back in sabertooth tiger days. So, if we go back to those days and the brain had a very, very quickly sort out is that movement. That’s why our brain loves movement, right? From attention perspective, that’s a tip. And that’s why videos doing well and things like, it’s movement. Is it’s going to eat me or can I eat it? Is it going to help me survive? Is it going to make me feel safe or does it make me feel unsafe? So, if you go back strip it back to those basic basic things, that’s a really important part of understanding those older brain instincts and then how we can convert that to today’s business world. So, how that is is that when we meet someone, it happens in our unconscious or subconscious. The old brain’s in the subconscious which is over 90 percent of our thinking happens there. Right? The decision making, our perceptions, our interpretation happens there. So, that first impression when you meet someone, hence the startling statement, people are summing you up in their head because they’re trying to figure out if you’re going to eat me or can I eat you.
Jacki: That sort of thing, right? They’re summing you up to say is it safe or not. So, the first thing the brain does is look for similarities. Are they similar to me? Because if it’s similar, it’s safe. Are they similar tribe? Okay. So, they look for similarities. So, that’s important to sort of understand how our brain works and how those first few seconds. Now the research goes anywhere between 3 to 7 seconds it takes. So, when you and I only met today, within 3 to 7 seconds we’re quickly going to do-do-do-do. It helped a little bit because Nadia introduced us.
Terence: Nadia was facilitating.
Jacki: That’s right. So, that then gave my brain a bit more comfort that Terence isn’t going to eat me up but we do that without even being aware of it. So, if you then go Okay someone summing me up in three to seven seconds, so what should I do to impact that summary? How can I design what they think about me? So, if I turned up today my tracksuit, your perception of me might be different from me turning up dressed for business. Or if, you know what I mean? Or if the first few words that came out of my mouth were not what you expected, I might get your attention and surprise you. But if I was swearing at you, might not be the right sort of attention. Right?
Terence: Surprise me in a different way.
Jacki: That’s it exactly. So, just to finish up the other three, the number two’s the what they call the midbrain which is where our emotions are stored. And again that’s at the subconscious level. The last bit in evolution is that what they call the prefrontal cortex which is the front of the brain which is our executive decision making. And that’s a new bit. So, that’s the bit that has made humans I suppose top of the food chain. And that is where the consciousness is. So, the consciousness is only at number three – the last bit of the brain to develop. But all the rest is subconscious and that’s where all the decision making is. And particularly the emotional bit. And it’s a shame when you hear things like that emotion is thought of as negatively. So stupid. People go oh you’re getting all emotional. Yeah I am because I’m human.
Jacki: And someone cleverly said, and I can’t recall exactly who it was, so I won’t pretend I could roll off, I could pretend I knew. But they said that we are emotional creatures that occasionally act rationally. And I really like that. And I think that sums up. I think and feel that that actually very accurately sums us up as humans. And the more that we can understand that and embrace it because all the evidence is there because they’re measuring emotions now. All this neuroscience is all leading to the same thing. So, you’ve got great thought leaders of the world are saying what I’m saying right now. And so, if we can as business owners understand that when we’re dealing with customers, that not to go straight to the rational side of it but to be very aware of their emotion and how you want to make them feel. And I think actually, I do know this one. I know Oprah Winfrey said “people won’t remember what you did for them, they’ll remember how you made them feel.” And that’s the feeling and she’s onto it. That’s all the same things you start again looking at those themes and common threads that really tapping into that emotional side of things. And that’s the whole walking in the customer’s shoes. So, getting a real sense of what is it like to be that customer. But not only from our demographic, we tend to focus on the demographics which is all very rational. Their age, their where they live, what sort of job they’ve got, how much income they’re earning. Let’s start thinking about psychographics which is lifestyle characteristics which is attitudes ,interests, opinions. But how are they going to feel? So, when guests come in here to do your podcast, right? Never ever forget or lose the psychs. I know you’ve sort of just pretty much started and you kickstarted it all, but never ever forget that guests coming in, the majority of them will be feeling a bit nervous. So, your job is to keep them calm, is to tell them how great they are because when their nervousness, confidence starts creeping in. All that sort of, so being very conscious of explaining the process to them but really getting a sense of understanding what it’s like for them.
Terence: Yeah. Cool. What you’re saying about how you make it, actually one of the things that we discussed on our previous podcast and I think we bought it back. or I bought it back to, brand is how you make someone feel. Like your brand is how you make someone feel.
Jacki: Spot on.
Terence: So, just going back to how you making people feel and that what you mention about startling statement, do you have a methodology that you’ve kind of put together to help people to figure out what that is?
Jacki: Yes, I do. I Have a process. So, I have a five-step corporate character process that I take people through. So, I’ve been doing a lot of work with people that work for organizations and that are, they’re quite ambitious – work for big organizations, want the attention of the CEO, want the attention of their team leader. They want to be promoted or they are thought about to be promoted. So, it’s about going okay if they want to be thought about what is it they want people to think of them, right? So, if they’re in a team meeting, these team members. We need someone that’s got a good innovative, creative thinking or style. And then everyone on the team will come up with a handful of do you want to be that person? Who do you want to be? What do you want to be thought of. What perception do you want people to think of you of? And there’s obviously that translates I’m doing a lot of work with entrepreneurs. Our job at the moment with a reality TV star about their brand because they’ve been quite successful on a reality TV show and they’re gone what next? How do I leverage this? I’ve got 6 months or so to make the most of this opportunity. I don’t want to wake up in two years time again and go Oh I missed it. I missed the boat. And they’re not quite sure how to present themselves. So, they obviously had a bit of a persona, obviously had a persona on the TV. And so which bits are those they want to amplify and which bits of those that they actually want to, I suppose, lessen? And then up I do work with entrepreneurs, business owners. And because if you’re a business owner or an entrepreneur, as I said earlier, you speak a lot and you meet a lot of people. You got a lot of functions. So, it’s about that consistent messaging and being very clear about how you want to be perceived. It’s almost if you can own a word and then that is that’s like oh my god that’s the golden egg. If you can own a word you know like Volvo did. Do you remember the word the Volvo owned? Do you know the word that Volvo owns, look at the brand Volvo.
Nadia: Volvo drivers…
Jacki: Well actually they used to own the word safety.
Jacki: So, a lot of people will still recall that why they don’t keep using that i don’t know, but for a car. And that’s an awesome word to own. So or even owning two or three words. So, if I said to you Nadia might know the answer to this, I know I haven’t done this with Terence. But if I mentioned three words and you put them together what brand pops in your head? Family, fun and magical. Is there a brand popping in your head?
Jacki: Exactly. Now this was not pre-rehearsed, I just met you today.
Jacki: I’ve been doing that for nearly 20 years. And it, a hundred percent everyone’s got that. Now that is awesome.
Terence: Pretty tough not to get that.
Jacki: Well, that is like Disney. But I love Disney as a brand. They are the gold standard. And to own those three words, but the three words have to go together. And by putting those and they’re three pretty basic words. Right? Megical, family, fun. If I just said magical, I might not got you there. So, by tying the three together it’s created an association in your memory. So, Disney it’s in most of our memories. It’s unbelievable. Have you ever been to Disneyland? Or…
Jacki: Right? Have you got children that’s into Disney?
Terence: I mean yeah. I…
Jacki: You it saved a little bit of a history there with Disney. Right?
Terence: Little bit.
Jacki: A little bit, okay. But that’s really awesome. So, imagine thinking of that as a person which is the principles the same. So, you say three words and then you go Richard Branson or Oprah Winfrey or whoever it is. Hugh Jackman. Whoever that the brand is. Madonna has done it really well. And so, if you can start owning some words and owning some imagery, that’s a really powerful.
Nadia: How do people come up with those words?
Jacki: Going through a strategic process.
Nadia: And what is it?
Jacki: Yeah. Well, I could spend the next five hours describing it which I won’t. But in a nutshell, it’s pretty much I start up with a brand audit and that’s really figuring out what’s existing. So, what equity is there? What’s the good stuff? We don’t want to start from scratch and throw out all the good stuff so. And then, you know, and it’s basic marketing 101 from a perspective okay what’s your purpose? What’s you aim? What are you trying to achieve? What is your outcome? What does success look like? What are your expectations? Is that sort of auditing all that, starting there. Who are your customers? Really key question. Who is it? Who is it that you’re trying to influence? Who is it that you’re trying to persuade?
Terence: It’s important because what you’re getting to is you’ve got to speak with, depending on who your audience is, you speak with them differently. Right? So, how is that?
Jacki: Well understanding who your audience is first. So, you don’t want to dilute yourself. And this is where us as humans, we always have that negative bias we always go to but if I, but I might miss out on something if I don’t get to everyone. So, the hardest thing is actually going you know what, let’s just pick one specific target audience and start there. And that specific target audience are going to be your friends. They’re going to get you, they’re going to love you and they’re going to buy from you. And they’re going to improve in what they’re doing. And so, understanding who that is – being very specific about that. And then once you’ve sort of got that going you go Okay what’s my second audience or another target audience? But segmentation is really important. The worst thing and the biggest mistake any small business can do, and I’ve said it far too often, is throwing everyone in a bucket and going who to target audience and I hear people say everyone. Worst answer. Ehhhhhh.
Terence: Is that me?
Jacki: Oh my God. How can you? So, it’s that, I suppose it’s the Pareto principle, the 80 20 rule. Try to get the 20 percent because they’re going to be probably the most profitable. There’s an older advertising saying advertising is great but only 50 percent of it works. But you don’t know which 50 percent you’re working for, right? Now that shows that’s a lack of strategic thinking. So, by being very targeted in your segment and who you’re targeting and understanding them. Let’s go back to what we’re talking about how they feel. What are their pain points? What’s keeping them up at night? What’s going to make them sing? What are you going to do that’s going to help solve one of their problems? What are you going to do to help them grow? To help them whatever it is that you’re wanting to help them.
Terence: Great point.
Nadia: I usually tell the clients when they come to me. Because they have to do their figures and numbers. Then why don’t we make money? And I ask them whom are you selling to? And I said well it’s a piece to be that you have this broad net. You’re gone and caught all the fish in the ocean. But you don’t know which one gives you better margins. But first. Let’s try to separate it and look at margins. I’m kind of in reverse marketer. I’m working from figures, looking at what easier for the clients to do business with, and then tell why don’t you target them? This is what we need. The more margins like there. And it’s a very simplistic way. But that hits this spot very quickly and I said why would you be catching all the fish? And just wasting your efforts if when you can just design a certain way of doing it which through your marketing. And therefore you need a marketing specialist. I’m not a marketing specialist but this is what you need.
Jacki: Yeah. It’s not a very good analogy now but it’s an old analogy about a scattergun approach vs. a targeted using a rifle – being very targeted. And then all that effort. Thinking really clearly about where you put your effort and resources. And everyone’s complaining they haven’t got any time. Well be very selective about your time.
Terence: Yeah. And I guess to me the way I think about that is that you want to try to speak with someone directly like as if you’re having a one to one conversation with just that person. If you’re speaking with everyone then you’re not speaking with anyone directly. [00:24:08][14.4]
Jacki: That’s right.
Terence: Having a direct conversation.
Jacki: Yeah that’s right. Well again some neuroscience research says it takes 7 to 9 times to tell one person the same thing for them actually to get. So, if you look at it from an advertising perspective if your in social media and you put a post on Instagram or post on Facebook and you put one post up, you know, nothing’s happening. No, because you need to do it at least 7 to 9 times. You look at TV advertising and McDonald’s put an ad on the table and just put an ad on 8:30 on a Sunday and they go well that’s our campaign. It continues to loop for a couple of weeks. You see it on bus shelters, you hear on the radio, you open the newspaper there in it. So it’s about integrating all the different brand contact moments it’s what I call. But it’s all these different areas or channels for communication are really important.
Terence: And then when you say brand contact moment, is that similar to what you referred to as touchpoint?
Jacki: Yeah, Yeah. So, touchpoint I suppose it’s just my language but the brand contact where the brand comes into contact. And it’s not always in an ad. It can be how you went to the telephone. So, it’s whenever a customer has any contact with your brand and whether that brand’s personal brand or a corporate brand. But if you’re looking at it from a purely from a branding perspective and really leveraging that. Like today I did drive through McDonald’s coffee. Love it. I love the speed. I love efficiency. And every single time the consistency which is the hardest thing to do in brand and brand in the branding world. Every single time I have Have a nice day. Have a good day. A smile, a thank you. And I just go, that’s awesome. Every single time. And these are teenage kids and there different ones every single time. I love the process. I love the systems in that. Yeah. I think that’s another gold standard but like Disney.
Nadia: And what I like about to your way of explaining things is you are coming up with your own view. Because we are desensitized to the touchpoint. Everybody talks about it. We probably had too many touchpoints with those words when we came to the point of saturation. When you actually actualize, meaning you’re dragging it out that good old knowledge. However you just revamping it to give it new life.
Jacki: Yeah. Well, I think the word touch. It’s a century word which is a good thing. But I think it’s limiting. Because if I see something and I’m not touching it, so, I suppose I’m taking it literally. But as humans we do that. So, when I hear touchpoint I think I’ve actually got a touch, be able to touch it where I want to be able to use all my senses. And so, the contact moments is where that comes from.
Terence: But I think the key here is that Nadia loves to make up new words.
Nadia: I do because I simply sometimes lack of vocabulary so I just have – a Cantoneese.
Terence: Cantoneese we’ve got this as that there’s a few that Nadia’s made up.
Jacki: I love it.
Nadia: And another one corporate character. That’s something I’m really passionate about because culture is everything. And culture is your part of your branding which people don’t understand. The way you treat your staff and the way the staff treats you back. The way you treat customers. The way you talk on the social media and the way your staff talks on social media. The way you interact with every stakeholder or anything in the business, I think it’s a part of corporate character. It’s basically thinking of organization of your business like a one single body. And what this body when you come and touch with them from any angle, what kind of feeling you’re experiencing? That’s what I think if I’ve understood your character, as a character would be. It’s like character of a person. He can be nice, he can be kind, he can be caring.
Jacki: Yeah. But it could also be interesting, i mean the character you’re absolutely right. So, it’s about the character of the person but the character of the brand. So, I like the word character because it says the core, the essence of the soul, your values, what the fundamental belief system of yourself is. And then how does that then resonate to your customers? So, which bits of you do you want your customers to see? Which bits of you as a personal brand or as a corporate character are relevant to your customers? Do your customers care that you’ve got kids? Do your customers care that you’ve got pets? Do your customers care be like to cycle on the weekend? Some might, some might not. But it’s about choosing wisely. Don’t just assume. Just don’t give everyone everything. And that’s one of the biggest mistakes I see with entrepreneurs and small business owners who have a social media page. Whether Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is probably a bit more professional. But with all the others. If they’ve got the page under their company name or if they’re trying to promote their own personal brand as a corporate character, entrepreneur would have forever reason. And be think about what is it that your customers want to see? So, it’s about posting relevant content not content that you just want to do. Like I use this example when one of my workshops and there’s a company called The Champagne Dame. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her. But she runs champagne tours in France. She’s based in Melbourne and she runs champagne to us in France. I think she just started an online shop. Anyway, she is very active on social media but her brand is all about champagne. It’s in her brand name. She’s always about champagne, champagne, champagne. And she posted, which I was really disappointed when she posted something on Instagram a while ago. And it was “been away coming home to my favorite things – my family, chocolate and whiskey.” And I’m going whaaaatt? Whisky? It’s supposed to be about champagne.
Terence: How did that creep in?
Jacki: She should have done that under her name. Like if she wanted a personal like not called the champagne, then start another page and have your personal stuff there. And there was another one called Love the Pen. And they post really cool beautiful photos and videos of the beautiful Mornington Peninsula. And then one day I looked at it and it was a video of snow. And they were walking through the snow. And I go what’s that about? And they were overseas on a ski holiday. Well they shouldn’t have used Love the Pen to do that because it wasn’t relevant. And for me it lost a little bit of credibility from that. So, look if that’s just a hobby or whatever that’s fine. But if that’s a business, you’re trying to elicit a certain emotion, a feeling, a following keeping that content consistent is really important.
Nadia: I have been disappointed a few times myself when I go on Instagram and something they post, that some cool things and I want to know more who is behind that. And then I follow and I find them some oversharing mum. Then you find on different platform, because I can stalk, doing completely contradictory things on your page. It’s just really blows my mind. That from my own point of view, I try not to judge or anything, but you can’t help it. And you just going. You hear words and the ones which touched me to begin with don’t have that impact anymore. I’m thinking, hang on it’s the same words, why it’s changed? And this is I do as an exercise. How do I feel about this words now? And then I realise who says it is important to me for some reason.
Jacki: Yeah. Well I think that the key with social media and it’s always a hot topic. It’s about relationship building. I know that you can sell stuff on social media now but social media should not be seen as a sales platform to sell anything about a brand, it’s about building relationships. And people want to get to know you. So, we talk about B to C and B to B, and it’s not about that anymore. It’s about H to H which is human to human. And I think the rise of the digital, the advent of digital. Everything digital, everything digital all the technology has actually on the other side to counteract that. There’s been a greater focus on how we understand human beings and how we can deal with people. And so, I think that human to human thought when you’re dealing with business as opposed to B to C and B to B is really key and that. And we’re dealing with people, it’s all about relationships. It’s like when you first meet someone let’s use this analogy, and again storytelling is a great way to express a point which I do like the storytelling. I’m well known for making a short story long. Well, I’ll try not to do that this time. I doubt that was always going to be the name of this book that I have, there are a couple of books I’ve got in my head. But yeah how to make short story long. I’m an expert at it. But anyway, there you go I’ve made this point long, is now I’ve lost my train of thought, this is what happens. This is what happens. What was I talking about?
Terence: You talk about a story.
Jacki: Oh, I was talking about storytelling. Yeah I know I think storytelling is a really important part of demonstrating an example of something people like a story. Because what it does it taps into their emotions. So, if I’d start telling a story about something, you’re listening to that story and I’m tapping into your emotions. I’m tapping into that midbrain. You’re not aware of it, it’s in your subconscious. But I’m tapping into that. So, this is where storytelling is really powerful. But I was getting to a point which I might remember…
Nadia: Human to human we were talking. And then we jumped to the storytelling.
Jacki: Yes, that’s it. That’s what happens. It mustn’t been that important. If it is, I’ll mention it again.
Terence: We’ll go back to it.
Jacki: We’ll go back to it.
Nadia: We were falling five steps or building…
Jacki: Oh, yeah. Yes. So it’s really about that purpose and the brand audit. And then from there really unearthing your style. So, understanding your productivity style – what values that you really hold close? So, it’s unearthing you, unpacking you as a person. So, then it’s authentic. We talk, we’re here that’s another word that’s over used at the moment authenticity. But for me it’s about being real. And if you’re a brand, you need to project a certain image that your customers want to see. But that image has to be you. You can’t pretend to be something else because it’s false. People will pick up on it very quickly. So, it’s about focusing on what strong, not what’s wrong. So it’s really focusing on your strengths, and your values, and your belief system, and your style. Your personality style, your productivity style, your work style. And as there’s a real focus on style because there’s no wrong or right, we are all different. Okay? So, it’s about picking out which bits are those. Then so, I suppose it’s then like a jigsaw puzzle to go okay this is the inside, the outside is your customers. Then there’s your competitors. So what are your competitors doing? And which piece of mental real estate do you actually want to own in your customer? If you’re wanting a piece of mental real estate that could have already been taken by five other competitors. So, it’s really then finding out what, point of difference but you’re uniqueness. What is it that you can offer your customers no one else can? What is it? And that takes some time Nadia to really unpack. And some people work faster than others you know so you’re dealing with humans so it’s not a robot. So it’s a five-step process which that’s part of it as well. And then once we do that we then get the strategy to go Okay he how is that then going to look? What’s the plan? What’s the plan of action? And then the last bit is making it the action, it’s the tactical side. So we have done this, the strategic thinking, we’ve done the planning. We’ve done a bit of navel gazing. Looking at… And most people, it’s hard to do it yourself. Really hard to do it yourself.
Terence: I’ve never heard of put that way.
Jacki: It’s some navel gazing. Well it’s a form of it cause you’re looking inside, right? So I provoke and prod and I’ve got some tools that I use to help unearth that what’s inside. Because it’s hard to figure it out yourself. You’d feel a little bit schizophrenic when you’re doing it. And it’s not something that we’re taught to do. Well, most of us. So, once we sort of figure that out I want people to be so comfortable that they feel they can wear it. Yeah, yeah that’s me. But all it is is sharpening their focus. And it’s still them. So, we are not creating something from nothing. I’m not being Dr. Frankenstein Okay I’m going to create this wonderful character.
Terence: Putting different pieces of different people together to…
Jacki: You can’t do that. It’s not real. Okay? So, it’s about going which bits do you want. This is the choose wisely bit. Then this is the bit that’s really cool. Once we’ve sorted that out and everyone’s really comfortable they feel like I can wear it. Yeah, yeah it’s me. Yeah, I feel good about that. You got Okay what does that look like? Okay so, if you were on social media what post would you do? What words would you use? What key message? What sentences would you use? Using words that have feelings. What words can I use to generate feelings from the target audience. Visually, visual is so underrated that’s why I think people start to get it now – video and Instagram. But our visual cortex in our brain, our visual side, it’s 64,000 times faster processed in your brain than text, a visual. So, a picture tells a thousand words as always. I can’t help but think that our ancestors, with coming up with all these sayings, knew that. And somehow we’ve been blinded and were, our eyes are opening up again a picture does tell us a thousand words. So, from your corporate character what visuals would be consistent with that? And then we start… And then we look at their LinkedIn profile. I guess it’s the first place we go because that’s your professional social media and LinkedIn is really high up. It’s the number one with Google’s search engine. So, if people are looking for you, if you’re putting yourself out there and putting your business out there, people are looking at you. People are finding you. I hear people say No, I don’t really use it anymore. I don’t use it. it’s like a CV online. No it’s not anymore. People are looking you up. I had someone call me yesterday from a referral for a new client and first thing I did was look them up. Who is this person? I don’t know who they are. Before I’m ever, I’m going to waste one second of my valuable time and all our time’s valuable mines not more important than anyone else but all of our time is valuable. And my brain does that straightaway. It very very quickly goes okay where am I going to spend my time? So, I looked on. I couldn’t find them. I couldn’t find them on LinkedIn. I couldn’t find them on Google. I couldn’t find them anywhere. I then went to the person that referred me saying what’s their story? I get an interesting email back and I’m not going to do business with that person. Because I’m suspicious. And by not finding them now, and that is a classic case. If you’re not online some way, then people go what are they hiding? Why aren’t they online? Are they so back in 1973? Or are they hiding something? Like that’s not a good stuff. So, we need to be on this part as corporate characters looking at LinkedIn. And once they’ve got, they’ve worn their brand, and they counter with it then go Okay let’s look at your LinkedIn profile. Oh they go Oh my God yes. I need to put those words. I need to change this word with that word. That photo is not right. Is it? No, it’s not. So, these articles and we start looking at some articles they can write. And so, we start looking at all their brand contact moments and going Okay how can we then make your brain consistent across that? And it just shifts their thinking. As I said, just sharpens their focused as to what’s brand relevant and what isn’t.
Terence: Yeah. I like what are you saying there about wear your brand.
Jacki: Wear it. Yeah, you got to.
Jacki: You’ve got to really wear it. Be really comfortable like a, your favorite coat.
Nadia: I actually listening to you, it’s always fascinating. It still mesmerise me. I’m just… as a brand suddenly over it’s own life It’s no longer something remote what marketers domain is. It’s you, it’s your character. It’s something piece of clothes and part of clothing but it’s part of very comfortable clothing for you. I’m just sitting then drawing analogies what it would feel for me is a comfortable brand it would be, It’s my dress or something it would be a very dress with a very stretched material which touches my body in the right place. That’s how I as a woman would describe a brand.
Jacki: Okay, that’s good. And I love analogies. And now I would like storytelling. It helps me well understand and it’s engaging. I think that’s really good. One of the things I always say is your brand has to work while you’re asleep. It has to work while you’re asleep. You’re not there to explain it to every single person who’s a potential prospect or is a customer. What your logo means? What your picture means? What your ad means? This is really clever. This is what it means. I designed it because it is this this. People are coming up with their own interpretation of it online. So, again it’s back to default or design. Choose wisely. Choose design hopefully but choose very wisely.
Nadia: And have we gone through all five?
Jacki: Pretty much.
Nadia: That’s it. We had the podcast wrapped up in all five brand building techniques.
Jacki: That’s right. Yes. So, to summarize, do you want me to summarize?
Nadia: Yes, please do.
Jacki: So, my top five brand tips I suppose, and I thought that would be useful for anyone listening going Yeah she’s made such a short story long. I can’t keep up with her brian’s going, her minds going. So, I thought I’d summarize. And this is again, we talked about. We started up with a startling statement. The brain loves a top and tail. So, you start off with the startling statement and you should finish with a similar thing. So, because the brain will remember the beginning and the end. Not a lot of the middle. So, people presenting. So, it’s always nice to finish off. So, number one… Just out of five and work up back up to one? Well how would like me to do it?
Terence: Which one’s more effective? We’re going to confuse everyone here.
Jacki: We can start at 5 and do a countdown to 1.
Terence: Yeah let’s do it.
Jacki: Would you like that?
Jacki: Because if I start at 1 they might get a little bit bored then.
Terence: Let’s play spaceship. Come on we’re launching rocket.
Jacki: Well number 5 customer shoes. So, it’s about walking in the customer’s shoes. Really understanding what it’s like to feel what the customer is feeling. A good example, a little story. Real estate agents. When they’re selling a house, they’re not just selling a house. A great real estate agent understands the vendor is selling part of their heart. They really understand that. That they’re wanting to get the best price and part of their getting the best price for their house is because they want to see value for all the hard work they’ve done.
Terence: It’s just a great point.
Jacki: Right. It’s so emotional, isn’t it?
Terence: Yeah. Well and for quite a few years I worked in the automotive industry. And really prestige brands. Understood. I mean they’re not just selling a car. They’re not just out there. I mean if you’re buying a car for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars plus, you’re not buying the car. Because you can buy something for fifteen thousand dollars that will get you from A to B.
Jacki: Like a Rolex. A watch tells the time no matter the brand. People buy the brand.
Jacki: And they buy the experience.
Jacki: So, I know I did some work with Toyota and Lexus, well Lexus particular. And they created these beautiful coffee showrooms. So, you’d go in there. It was a unbelievable. The food they had, the coffee. They had a proper barista. And what, that was very clever. So, again it was an extension of the brand. And they’d give you a free car washes. So, you’d go free car wash, great coffee. And guess what. You’re sitting there having the coffee. Guess what the customers looking at? All the new Lexus.
Terence: Absolutely. Yeah.
Jacki: So, again much easier to… If you’re looking at increasing your audience or your customer base, focus on your existing customers. Don’t focus on acquisition. A lot of companies focus too much on acquisition not on retention.
Terence: Very correct.
Jacki: Customer shoes, number 5.
Jacki: Number 4 – point of difference.
Jacki: Podcast, point of difference cast?
Terence: I don’t think that was there.
Jacki: It just pops in my head.
Nadia: That’s practical.
Jacki: There’s a new word Nadia. You like new words?
Nadia: I do.
Jacki: It’s about uniqueness. What is it that’s different about you? What is it that you can actually provide to customers that not many other people can or the competitors can’t? And be really clear.
Nadia: In my brain, if I process it correct or not. For me, pod is a little hook. What hooks people up to you because they look at everybody. They’re assessing, they’re scanning you. Do all whatever their old brain needs to do better. But then suddenly, something stands out, they will looking for it. And there is a perfect match which happens on a subconscious level. But they have found it. They feel about it and this talk as you knowing your Hook really well maybe look nice food but i like.
Jacki: Yeah, that’s cool. It’s about what’s going to resonate with you. But a hook’s part of it. One of the other words i like you’ll like this. The word stickiness. Like what’s going to stick in someone’s brain? So, you want a message that’s sticky. But it’s about that point of difference. What is it? And that’s really key. And that’s really hard for most people because they like I do that. Well what do you competitors do? Oh no, I don’t really follow competitors. Well you should because you need to know what they’re offering. So, it’s about that mental real estate. Which part…
Terence: Yes it is. And one of the things I’ve been realizing is that coming into the business coaching space, there’s a lot of business coaches out there who’ve never actually run a successful business or never built a successful business.
Jacki: Yes there sure are. There’s lot of marketers out there who have no marketing training. Or the brand experts out there who have probably come from advertising if you’re lucky.
Jacki: So, I say that all the time because I do the coaching as well. And in my industry, it really annoys me. And so my advice is always check credentials. Always check credentials. If you’re dealing business with someone and you can’t find them online, big red flag.
Terence: Yeah. But I mean just bring it back to the point of difference. Sometimes the point of difference is a lot more obvious, maybe, than it seems. I mean for me it’s okay well coming into that space it’s so obvious that I’ve actually built businesses, right? And as a business coach you probably want some experience doing that. At least some…
Nadia: For me, more valuable not that you build businesses. The quality of business as is it when you sell the business. If you can sell the business it means you know how to build them. That’s my filter for success. Any business coach space Yes correct. If a person tells me that is their business coach, I want to see how many businesses they have been part of.
Jacki: But the fact that you’ve been there, done that shows that you’ll be able to show empathy to your clients. You’ll be able to understand their pain points from an emotional perspective. If you haven’t gone through that. And some of it’s great but some of it’s hell. And you need to be had a walk through the corridors of hell to really, to be able to understand when someone’s sitting there across from you looking towards you to help and they’re really struggling. That you get a sense of what they’re going through because you can’t go through, everyone’s got a different journey but understanding that sense and working them through that, and motivating them, so motivation that’s emotional. Look at all the emotional things. My emotions and that’s my #3 is emotion. It’s that emotion’s been had this negative association. But if you look at words like pleasure is emotion. Motivation, inspiration. They’re all emotional words. Emotion doesn’t rise that we fear.
Jacki: Because there’s a lot of focus on fear. And look fear’s a main driver. But, and sadness. But joy. There’s a great film Inside Out. It’s a Disney film. It’s a Disney-Pixar actually. And it’s called Inside Out. It’s a cartoon. And if you haven’t seen it before, I highly recommend anyone interested. I’m serious. Anyone interested in neuroscience understanding what or cut consumer behavior, human behavior – how our brain works and what motivates us. When they made Inside Out, it’s basically inside of a little girl’s head. And they’ve created characters out of all the emotions. So, there’s joy, sadness, anxiety, anger. There’s all these different characters. And when they made the movie and every psychologist that I’ve spoken to have all said this that they actually had psychologists working on the movie to make sure it was accurate with how our brain works. It’s not just a kid’s movie for any adult. Looking at the storytelling and understanding what drives us. It’s a lovely scene about the train of thought. There’s this train. So, they go inside your head. It’s like a world in itself so highly recommend that. That’s my number 3 three.
Terence: And I think part of the way that I think about that is emotion can really drive results. So, if you’re results-driven person or if you’re driven to success what makes you want to really get you to that point I guess. And to me that’s purpose which is driven by emotion. Emotions of all sort. That you’ve got to have something. Look at the really successful people out there, they had something driving them. Because as you say, business is not easy. Like anyone who goes into business thinking this is going to be a breeze, it’s going to be a lot easier they’re normally sadly disappointed. And if they don’t have real purpose, if they’re not in contact with those emotional drivers. Then they don’t have enough reason to keep going. And through those tough times when you need something really there, a little bit more than just saying okay we’ll I want to have a successful business to actually keep going. Right?
Jacki: Absolutely. You need some resilience. Building that resilience up. It’s like playing golf. Yeah. I use that analogy. Because if you’ve played golf, I’ve only once played golf before. It’s really hard. And you hit 10 really bad shots. But it’s that one, it’s that one great shot to par three, And you’ve actually hit a par three where you’ve done a great driver, a path or whatever. And it’s that one shot that keeps you going for the whole game.
Terence: I mean that’s true for me in surfing. I surf.
Jacki: So, you catch that one wave and you go Oh my God that was really good. I’ve caught 15 crap ones and having but that one, one was really good.
Terence: Yeah. I Have the worst session. But if I catch one great wave it just became the best session.
Jacki: And I think that’s a really good tip for motivation. It’s about where you put your focus. Because our brain has a kind of negative bias. Well that’s why we worry. Because we’re trying to keep safe. Go back to the old brain, we’re trying to keep safe. So, if we can look at focusing on the positive, the glass half full thing. So, our ancestors these people who came up with these sayings were onto something I guarantee. But anyone going into business, in business should have a coach. And as I say wrote there’s a reason Roger Federer still has a coach. He’s greatest of all time so is his coach. So as his team around him. He has his coach. He has his sports psychologist, he has his dietician and nutritionist, he has his physio, he has his trainer. He has his team around him. So, I think a lot of, particularly small business people, it is tough. But you get your team around you, and I think a business coach and or mentor is absolutely critical to success. Okay my number 2 is focus. So, the stronger the focus the stronger the brand. And we talked about segmentation a bit earlier about focusing on one audience. But focusing your brand when you are, your corporate character. Pick no more than 5 key personality traits. We talked about Disney having three. But really honed down. It’s like you put yourself in a pot and you boil it down. You’re okay what’s left? What’s the core? But that core, the essence of your brand, has to mean something to your customers. What is it they’re wanting from you? What is it that they’re wanting from you? So, I think the focus. The stronger the focus, the stronger the brand. Number one. Number one, duh duh duh duh.
Jacki: Is your brand has to work while you’re asleep. So, it’s all about consistency. Consistency is the hardest thing to do. And you’re never going to get it right 100 percent ever. But keep striving towards it. Just keep striving towards it. Because occasionally you might, you might get 100 percent. But it’s really hard to do. So, if you’re being inconsistent don’t stress. Just be aware of it and just keep working towards that consistency. Just keep thinking. Just keep being aware and thinking about it and being strategic in your choices. Again choose wisely.
Nadia: Consistency. You can guarantee the consistency of trying to achieve consistency.
Jacki: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Terence: Consistent effort.
Jacki: Yeah, that’s it. Just be aware thinking about your contact moments is. Is your website? If you put your website. Your brochures, your social media, all your social media postings, how you answer the telephone, your business card, how your dressing, what conferences you go to what seminars, what podcast you agree to do. Is there a consistent do? If you put them altogether, if you could put them all on the table, do they look like they’re related? Is the first question. And they should not only look like they’re related, not distant cousins, but they look quite closely related. They’re from the same family. That’s a really good start.
Nadia: So, everything for what you have said broadcast shows Midir of Arza Owlglass. They are outlets but message should be one consistent or consistent.
Jacki: Yeah. So, my message is changed a little bit depending on who I’m speaking with and what I’m speaking about. So, I tend to sort of speak. There’s a variety of topics that I can speak about. So, I did a video interview a couple of weeks ago and they wanted to talk about marketing. So, my messages were more marketing focused. Whereas today was a bit more about branding and corporate character. So, it can vary a little bit where others it might be a bit more about how to use the media to increase your profile. So, whether it’s traditional media or social media, it’s another topic. What do the top thousand business experts say? So, because I’m just a channel and so I can talk about that. What’s the latest finding in neuroscience? I can do a whole thing just on neuroscience. We could have spent the whole time doing that. But what I tend to do is sort of, they weave in together. So, I’m not talking about gardening one time and then OH and S practices another. And then the latest political ramification is on a by election. That would be inconsistent.
Terence: Although we did manage to get all those into one podcast. Right?
Jacki: I like the way you’re thinking. That’s true, that’s true.
Nadia: I want to ask a very trivial question. And it still comes to my clients always ask me one as they go on a business. How should they name my business? Is it… I hear that’s not okay to call it by my last name.
Jacki: Well, it depends what you want to do with it.
Nadia: It’s an old question. But it still…
Jacki: But yeah, it’s really important. So, the first thing is when you’re starting a new business is looking at your exit strategy. Okay? Because we’re all going to die. It’s not a lottery. So, what do you want done with? Pass it on to the family, keep it in the family, sell it. So, that’s the first question depending what you want to do that. Most people will say Okay I want to sell it. You keep your options open. So, naming it by your name Ken, that could be limiting that’s another thing. And depending what your surname is. So, if you have a surname like Crapper, then and you know, you’re in toilets it might work.
Terence: My surname just didn’t work.
Jacki: How do you? Toh.
Terence: Toh. Yeah.
Jacki: Okay. Well if you’re a podiatrist, it might be.
Terence: Good idea. Just change the spelling a little bit.
Jacki: There’s a podiatrist in Frankston and they’re in foot street.
Nadia: Yeah. I saw it.
Terence: So, they call a foot strain podiatrist?
Jacki: I love that. Yeah they do actually i think they do. I haven’t been there, just seen it. But it’s true. But that leads me to linking to a network of memory. So, a brand name needs to link to an existing. It’s easier to attach to an existing memory then create a new memory. Okay? So, that’s what I call brain glue. And so, you’re looking for short cuts particularly for small businesses. They’re creating a brand and their brand doesn’t necessarily have to be their business name. It could be the name of their newsletter. It could be the name of their loyalty program. Whatever it is. But you’re looking at creating a name and a shortcut is a brain hack is to attach to an existing memory. For our brains to create new memories, it’s really hard work for our brain to do that. And that’s why we forget a lot. Okay? Because it sits in our short term or our working memory and that has a limited capacity. So, it’s like a bucket. It does overflow. And what happens when it does get full, the brain will start pruning itself. You don’t have a choice. And that’s why you’re forgetting. So car keys are important to you, your brain went ah nah i’m just going to get rid of that. I’m full. So, you need to keep offloading itself. So, this is where you can actually get in control of it. And then transferring the stuff that’s important into your long term memory because that’s infinite. That’s got unlimited capacity. So, you start remembering things that are important. And if you, an emotional memory is always going to be remembered. So, if you ask anyone do you remember the day you married, the birth your children, the funeral of your parent, everyone will remember that. Most likely the date. And exactly how they felt that day. Felt? Feel the focus on felt. What happened? But if you ask them to remember a random day, a certain date the 28 of April in 2001, what were you doing that day? I don’t. Can’t remember. Or you might go back to the year and that might trigger I was living in, you know, so, if you look at key moments, key emotional moments. That’s a really really important link as well. I think I’ve lost my train of thought again.
Nadia: I found it, it’s fine. It’s about I’ve been asking you about small business and you…
Jacki: Oh, brand names. Yes. So, it was attaching to an existing memory. I think that’s important. And I know that City Link, just created, they’ve just rebranded their account. I don’t know.
Terence: I did noticed that.
Jacki: Right. And do you think I could… They’ve made up some stupid word. So…
Terence: Linked. Is that linked?
Jacki: Yeah. I think it’s pronounced link but when I saw it written it was LINKT or something.
Jacki: And I’ve gone what the hell’s that? Couldn’t remember because it’s a new memory I’ve got to create, right? Because nothing is existing in that.
Nadia: Couple of fines will create this memory very quickly. That’s how I create my memories.
Jacki: There you go. Yes. So…
Nadia: Emotion, anger.
Jacki: Emotion, anger. That’s right. Disgust. So, I think attaching to an existing memory is a really good shortcut. So, if your surname is relevant to what you’re doing or not so, you need to go through the strategic process. It’s my recommendation.
Terence: Yeah. And that’s I think where visualization can come into it, can really be key. Because you can quite easily attach memories to a visualization.
Jacki: Yes. Yes. Well thats…
Terence: That’s a really good strategy.
Jacki: have the vision. Yeah. But think about the brand glue. It’s much easier to attach to an existing memory than create a new one.
Terence: That’s fantastic. Well, I’ve got a ton of notes here so I’m really happy about that. How about you Nadia? You’re looking great. Alright. So, thanks Jacki for sharing all information with us.
Nadia: I’m afraid it’s not all the information Jacki knows she shared. Had segment and she zoomed in, she focused then on brand.
Jacki: I’ve given you a taste. A taste tester.
Terence: So, to find out more, how can our listeners connect with you?
Jacki: Yes. The best way to find me is on LinkedIn.
Jacki: Yeah. And I accept every request.
Terence: Wait I checked your brand now.
Jacki: Yeah. Check it out. And I don’t want to be sold anything. So, I do that but there’s a bit of increase. I don’t know if anyone else has found on linkedin a bit of sell. I Just say no thank you. No thank you but I’m starting to ignore a few…
Nadia: I ignore because it’s just I find insulting. You accept their request to connect and the next thing you get an email which is really in annoying so I just ignore it.
Jacki: Yes, that’s right. But look, LinkedIn is fine. And the other thing too is just Google Jacki Mitchell. Find lots of stuff out. But I’m not the American baseballer. The hit out babe Ruth in the 1930s. That’s the other Jacki Mitchell if you Google yourself. You should Google yourself and find out what you know, because again, it’s walking in your customer shoes. People Google when they find.
Jacki: That’s not me one. I’m not a baseball player from 1930’s.
Terence: Well, really appreciate you coming on and sharing all this information with us. So, thanks for…
Nadia: Thank you so much.
Jacki: It’s great fun and thank you for asking.
Nadia: Thank you.
Terence: Thank you.
Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Unfair Advantage Project. For more curated resources, visit us an unfairadvantageproject.com.