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Ken Okazaki outlines the key ingredients that boost the chances of a video going viral. Ken covers everything from how to make an attention grabbing title to how long your videos should be for optimal performance.

Show Notes:
Is Ken a common name for boys in Japan? [01:18]
Ken shares what he does best. [02:32]
Shit Strategy: something good or something bad? [04:25]
What’s the most comfortable place and time to watch videos? [07:59]
Hockey Puck Title explained. [13:26]
Can we guarantee virality? [18:06]
The name you should never forget – HILDA [18:49]
What could make people hooked? [20:06]
Better ways to introduce yourself. [22:22]
What’s a rickroll? [25:56]
Asking a question: Is it a sin? [29:30]
Ken shows some examples. [32:44]
When is the best time to ask questions? [39:15]
Ac-cantonese: People you would never wish to meet. [40:37]
What to prioritize among Branding, Marketing and Sales? [45:25]
Ken talks about some other systems he has used. [55:34]

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Episode 17: The viral video effect with Ken Okazaki

Narrator: Welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project – unique perspectives, practical insights and unexpected discoveries directly focused on giving you the unfair advantage. Introducing your hosts Nadia Hughes and Terence Toh.

Terence: Welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project. I’m Terence Toh, Managing Director and Founder of Strategiq Corporation. I’ll be one of your hosts today and Nadia today with me. Good morning Nadia!

Nadia: So, I’m Nadia Hughes. I am from Smart Business Solution, I am a director there as well. And I am so happy to be here…

Terence: And an accountant. A Russian Accountant which is what you need if you really, if you need an accountant, you need a Russian Accountant.

Nadia: Yes, I’m always on hire. That’s correct.

Terence: And today we’re kind of really excited to have Ken Okazaki from OZ Media Global. And he’s going to talk to us a little bit today about video. Good morning Ken. How are you?

Ken: Good morning. Morning. I’m really glad to be on the show. And thanks for inviting me.

Terence: And Ken’s joining us from Japan today which is… well I think we actually this is a landmark occasion for us. We haven’t had a guest from Japan just yet.

Nadia: So, do boys from Japan called Ken often?

Ken: Ken is… usually there’s variations like Kento or Kenji or Kenkaro. But just Ken. When I was born my parents gave me the name called So. And it’s actually a great name, it means to be creative. But I went to international school and every time I tried to introduce myself “Hey what’s your name?” And then I’d say So. And they’re like so what? It took me 5 minutes just to explain that the word So was my name. On my 16th birthday, I decided to put an end to this madness and I gave myself a birthday present of a new name called Ken. Because I did some research to figure out what name can’t be mispronounced in either Japanese or English or in as many language as possible, and as commonly used male name. So, I actually strategically chose the name Ken so that I don’t have to worry about explaining my name to people. So, that’s the story behind my name.

Nadia: It’s very disappointing because Vladimir would be more appropriate. Vladimir? You know?

Terence: Vladimir?
Nadia: Yep.

Ken: I’ll try to get the Japanese to pronounce that.

Terence: Yeah, yeah.

Nadia: But…

Ken: They always get it wrong.

Nadia: Well, it always gives you a longer time face-to-face.

Terence: Yeah. So, Ken first question I’ve got for you today is how would you describe what you do without using a job title?

Ken: What I do, I help coaches, speakers, authors. Positioning themselves as the only logical choice using video. And the way I do this is by making videos about them very likely to go viral and attract more people to their message and to their business.

Nadia: I just picked the word viral here and for me it’s an affection. To go viral, that’s basically attracting a very wide audience. What isit for you going viral means? Because in marketing it’s always about target audience. Going viral it’s almost opposite for me.

Ken: That’s a really good question and people have the exact same question. So, a lot of times when you think of viral videos, you think of the cute kid, the car accident, that lightning bolt. These things that are kind of random. Right? And that is one form of viral video. But when you do it strategically, and that means that we are actually giving content that’s wanting to promote your message and then frame it in such a way that people are going to want to share it, then that is what I would call strategic viral videos. And viral literally means that the video takes life for its own. You’re not pushing it out, people are sharing it. So, it’s really pulling you into the market instead of you pushing. And if it can take your message, if you have a meaningful purpose and it’s great message that people want to share and that’s what I do.

Nadia: Now I am fascinated. Now I mean what kind of video would go viral? What’s the key ingredient in a video has to be present in order to secure their spread of infection?

Ken: Okay so there’s a lot of things that go into this. I’m going to give you the really simple version first and then we could go deep into any one of them if you like. But there is something that I call the shit strategy. Okay? And yes, you heard me shit strategy and this is the mindset I go into every time I make, I design a viral video. First of all, do you know the place where 90% of the people actually watch videos? Like where are you physically when you watch a video. Number 1 is it on your desktop or your mobile? It could be on your mobile 100% right? And number 2 where do people spend most of their days. The majority of days is spent at work, right?. And when you’re at work, you’re not supposed to be on your phone so much your supposed to be you know doing whatever else would be. So, the research has shown that videos that are viewed are going to be 90 percent done in a public toilet stall. Okay? So, you’ve got to put yourself in a mindset that the guy you’re trying to reach, the person you’re talking to is sitting on a crapper. Right? So, imagine yourself sitting there in a toilet stall. Number 1, they’re scrolling through Facebook and people scroll at a rate of about what is it 10 inches per second which is really fast. Now it gets faster and faster. So, number 1 you’ve got to remember that you’ve got to grab their attention really fast with a really strong headline. You’ve got to ambush their eyeballs. Right? But the principle here is that once you grabbed their attention… Have you ever come to video, it looks interesting and then you look at the play bar and it says it’s 30 minutes. And you like I don’t have time for this. Right? What do you do?

Terence: Scroll.

Ken: You just… You Scroll past it. It’s just like, i don’t have the time for this, maybe later. You might save it and then it goes to the save section that you never actually look at. Right? So, in order to overcome that you got to remember that the person’s going to be in and out in about probably 3minutes. So, if your video is longer than three minutes, the rate of people who are interested but leave is very very high. So, rule number 1 the person who’s on his phone, he doesn’t have more than three minutes. Otherwise his boss is going to be on his case. Right? Number 2, the video looks interesting, it’s under three minutes. But then when you start playing it, the person is talking to you, you can’t hear them. And most of the time you don’t earphones there. So… and if they turn on the volume, there maybe someone on the right and on the left listening. And that’s a little embarrassing. So, again, if you don’t have really bold captions that spells up every single word you’re saying, you’re going to lose them. Okay? And that’s going to be about 80% of the time when you’re sitting down and you don’t have the earphones there. So, rule number 2 you need that. And rule number 3 is that you’ve got to remember there’s more than one person in that bathroom stall. Okay? There’s a person sitting down and then there’s you. And what that means is it’s an intimate one to one connection. You’re having a conversation with a real person. You’re not presenting to 5,000 people. You’re not on the radio, you’re not on TV. You’re having a one-on-one conversation. And this is an issue that a lot of people who are professional speakers have. I get them in my studio and I’m directing and im going to say stuff like Hey guys how many of you have ever felt like this? Raise your hand if – and that’s like, dude, the guy sitting on a toilet , he’s not going to raise his hand. He’s not going to stand up go to the bathroom. Like literally, the conversation has to feel like you’re talking to a friend. It has to be a conversational tone and you’re always talking to one person.

Nadia: I have an issue with it, you’re having conversation with a person who doesn’t have their pants on. So it’s just you have to be really, it’s like, we have to make dignified moment out of this so it’s you created a lot of this metaphor, not even a metaphor, you just created this visual image for us. And just very hard to work with it at the moment so let us adjust for a second. It’s quite bold concept but very catchy. I will remember it forever. So, thank you for that Ken.

Ken: But the thing is, I mean it is not just catchy. It’s actually real stats. This is where people watch videos and how they watch videos. And the other thing about being having a conversational tone is that it’s not scripted. What you have is a big idea in your mind and just like right now, on this podcast, not that I’m saying it’s scripted, but I have deep knowledge about this. So, what I do is I have something called the hives of deep knowledge. And I call it the hives because what comes out of a beehive is honey, right? It’s the good stuff that comes naturally to you. Bees make tons of effort to invent honey every time. It just comes naturally to them. And it’s a great stuff, right? And I think that every single person, if you dig deep on to what is the good stuff that comes naturally to you and focus only on that, you don’t need a script. You just need a topic.

Nadia: And that’s what makes you good at that because the bee is what they do they regurgitate their pollen and what you doing you collected the pollen from all over the world and now you regurgitating for our listeners. In a very adaptable form and using all those vivid images. That’s what I think makes you like a bee.

Ken: Thank you. I think that regurgitating is one form but I like… I mean if you don’t mind, I really prefer to call it you’re transforming it because they’re taking the nectar, right? But it doesn’t come out as an nectar, it comes out of something totally different that’s uniquely theirs. A lot of people do regurgitate and that’s something I try to avoid. I don’t take somebody else’s content and spit it out. And I don’t encourage other people to do that even though it’s difficult for some people when they have consumed so much content. But really what I encourage you to do is dig deep into what is uniquely theirs. And it’s okay if it’s influenced by things that you’ve heard around you. But it’s really got to be your deep knowledge, you don’t just I heard this great blog post or YouTube video or something and then quote that quote. You want to keep it to a minimum because there’s not going to be long before there’s going to be 20 other people doing the same thing and then you not stand out anymore.

Nadia: How are you, this is one of the things which I want to go a bit more deep in this think with original because you are quite right. You’re touching the point when everybody catches on. And then you have to be always a step ahead than everything. Where do you get this streak of creativity to keep constantly producing interesting content for this video?
Ken: Okay

Nadia: And being this, grab their attention.

Ken: So, I told you earlier about the concept of the shit strategy and the first thing that you got to think about is that when people are scrolling, they’re scrolling really fast. And you’ve probably seen these videos where you have a big bold title on the top of the frame, right? Do you ever wonder why the titles on the top of the frame exactly the way it is?

Nadia: That’s where your eyes land first. Is it correct?

Ken: Yes. Because when you’re scrolling, you never scroll up to down. It’s always bottom to top, right? And so, that thing that is going to stay on the screen for the longest is the top line of the title. The thing that’s gonna stay on the screen the second longest the second line. You’ve got to think about what is on the first line of the title, the second line title, third line title and then your face. So, this comes back to something I call hockey puck titles which is really one of the core elements of everything I do. Have you ever made videos and put them online?

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: Videos?

Ken: Yeah. Do you have? Both of you? About you.

Nadia: Making video like for filming somebody or making my own selfie.

Ken: Of you?

Nadia: Oh yes, I have done it recently. And it’s just epic failure. But yeah, I did try. I did have a go.

Ken: Let me know if this sounds familiar. Okay? First of all, you stop and think like I’m might good at that, I want to teach. Right? And then you write down a few ideas. Okay? And then the next thing you do is you pick one of them and say I want to make a movie about this. And you write down maybe a script or a few bullet points. Right? And then you setup your camera or your iPhone. You have your script in front of you, maybe you have an assistant. And if you’re really fancy, maybe you have a clip-on mic and some light. But you get that all set up. You kind of rehearse what you’re going to do, you hit record, you look at the camera, deliver that message or the conversation, then hit stop. Right? And then you bring it to your computer, think of a catchy title. You upload it and then the last step, this is the most important thing, like this and you pray to God that somebody will click and watch your video. Does that sound familiar?

Nadia: Well, they’re all in this boat I think.

Terence: I think that’s familiar to a lot of people creating videos.

Ken: So, here’s the problem with that. You put a lot of work into it. Maybe you even hire professional videographer. But because of the fact that we don’t know if people click your video or not, that’s a very risky thing to do. Because as busy entrepreneurs, our time is important. Our resources as far as equipment and the teams we hire, all of that’s important. And then it all boils down to you don’t even know if people watch your video. Right? And when I thought of this, this is fundamentally flawed. You can’t have repeatable consistent success running with a system like this. And I got into this because I have a love of videography and Japanese. So, I love to spend money on cameras and lenses and stuff like that. But then I realize I’ve got to help my clients have a better success rate. So, how can I turn this around so that we can have a much better success rate and it’s much more repeatable? So, I call it hockey puck titles because… Have you ever heard somebody name Wayne Gretzky? He is probably the world’s most famous… Have you heard of Michael Jordan?

Nadia: Yes, of course.

Ken: So, he’s like the Michael Jordan of ice hockey. Okay? And somebody asked him what’s the secret to your success? How come you have more awards, more medals than anybody else in the world and things like that. And he says well there’s one thing that I always think of. Whenever I’m playing, I don’t skate to where the puck is, I skate to where the puck will be. So, he doesn’t go to where he thinks that ologists, he goes to where he believes people will actually click. And that’s the metaphor I use. So, I thought okay so we need to do is find out first of all what is the person’s sphere of deep knowledge? For example your brand might be about podcasting or maybe about accounting, I’m not sure. But if you have something that you, I would say there’s a lot of subject that would fit into a neat circle, that you could call your brand. Right? Or your strategies . And then there’s another sphere which is, which represents what is currently trending todate. What are people sharing? What are people commenting on? What are people responding to online? And then with a little bit of research, we can figure out where is the interest action, Okay? What is it that you do right now that you’re great at and you’re getting great results with, and what aspect of that or what angle of that is going to catch people’s attention today? Okay? So, once we find that intersection, let’s stay an accounting. There might be something called accounting hacks for 80 year old retirees or something. I don’t know. Maybe for some reason that’s a big deal. So, we’re only going to focusing on accounting for elderly people. And then what we do is we go and we researched how to write killer titles that people are going to respond to. How to get people’s attention? And that’s one of the things that we do this we write titles that convert. And so, step 1 find the intersection between your brand and the market – what’s trending. Step 2, identify the things in the intersection and then write titles that people will respond to that can relate to that. Now here’s a third step. Okay? We’ve got the titles and let’s say where you’re planning to shoot 10 videos today. We’re going to have about… I shoot for 3 times the amount in case some don’t really hit it. But let’s say we’ve got 30 titles. And I say Hey, for example Nadia would you consider yourself a professional at accounting?

Nadia: Yes, of course.

Ken: Okay. So, if I made a title and I’m just going to try to make up one in my mind right now but if I said, hey Nadia, I got the camera and I point at you, I’d like you know could you talk for let’s say five minutes about this title. And the title is Three things business owners don’t understand accounting.

Nadia: Of course. Yeah. Let me…

Ken: Easy, right?

Nadia: Yes.

Ken: Because that is your expertise. And I just saw your face light up, you’re like hey I could do this. Right? And I’ll tell you the other trick and you can use that title if you like. You can make it five or two. But whatever fits for you. But the thing is that title will get clicked by business owners who are like having, pulling their hair off because they don’t get their accounting. They don’t understand that, the concept of it. So, number 1 you have deep knowledge about it and you could talk about it in a conversational way without a script, without bullet points. And on top of it, it’s from your deep knowledge. You don’t have to work hard, you’re just answering questions. And you have a fairly good success rate that somebody is going to click that video and be interested in what you have to say about it. Let me know if I make sense to you.

Nadia: Yes.

Terence: I think that Nadia is going to be recording a video shortly.

Nadia: That will be good or I will chase you and simply say let’s do that. Interesting because I am straight away labelled as the most boring profession in the world and when I say I’m an accountant, people just go ‘oh yeah’ I hate the accounting it’s just all numbers and everything but…

Ken: But they wouldn’t say that to your face, would they? Cause then you would call your KGB friends on them right?

Nadia: Yes. Well, I actually like to challenge of them. Anyway, what I did learn from you right now is the deep knowledge. To talk about topic which your face lights up about.

Ken: Exactly. And only talk about that in the beginning when you want to attract right people.

Terence: Okay, cool. So, now we’ve got a title for Nadia’s next video, right? And I know because we had a really good chat at a conference awhile back that you’ve got some great structures to actually help us to put together videos that will go viral or will at least be seen by.

Ken: But I would like to say is like you can’t guarantee virality. But you can definitely increase the odds. And that’s what I did. It is something that there is an art, there are trends. There’s too many circumstances to guarantee it. But I just what I do there is to turn up all the dials and make it really really like. Top disclaimer is out there. Like I said they can guarantee it.

Terence: Yeah.

Ken: I can’t push it on them. It’s not something you can guarantee.

Terence: Yeah. So, how can we structure a video to get the best odds of going viral? Let’s put it that way.

Ken: Okay. So, this is really easy to remember and I want you to write this down if you’re listening to this podcast. If you’re in a car, do not stop the car just try to remember. There’s one name. Okay? And this person’s name is Hilda Spelled HILDA. Okay? Now this system, this name, helps you to structure videos so you can take a big idea, a big concept and compress it into 3 minutes. And with this structure I’ve had the best success rate, number one in grabbing people’s attention early on. Getting them to watch all the way to the end. And at the end feeling satisfied with the content you gave them. And making an micro commitment at the end. And as we all know, a micro commitment is a first step in any marketing process to get people to go on to take the next step and the next step. Right? So, I don’t know if this is interesting to listeners but what are you giving us to share what hilda is and how it works.

Terence: Yeah, definitely.

Nadia: Yeah.

Ken: Is Hilda a girls name in Russia or is that just like a Scandinavian thing?

Nadia: It’s a Scandinavian thing. We don’t have Hilda. Just may be some modern crazy mom would call one just for her.
Ken: Okay. I like it because it sounds like Brunhilda the warrior. Yeah. Anyhow. So, here we go. So, HILDA. H stands for hook. Okay? Now when you hold the first three seconds is when you have to hook them. And I mean hook them strong. Now there’s a lot of ways to do this. And one of my favorites is to ask question. If I say something like and I’m going to keep using you Nadia as an example because I know you do accounting. If I say something like video starts with why are there more women accountants than men? Then all of a sudden, everybody who is interested in accounting. Or getting a job in accounting or studying it. There’s going to be like oh I never thought of that before. Right? Depending on what the topic is, right? You’re going to change that. But start with a question that’s going to get people. Trying to do is you planting a hole in their brain. Okay? And what this means is that it’s a question they didn’t know they had but you just put it there. And the only way they can get the answer is to continue watching that video. Okay? They didn’t know they had the question. But you can put a question right in their brain. How about this. Why do accountants try BMWs and not Benz’s? Now I don’t know if that’s true but if you do a little research you find these things. And then no one ever had that question in their mind until you posed it. Right? Right. Maybe BMW have a great deal on tax returns that accountants know about or something. I don’t know. Like you find obscure facts but then you tie it into your climate. So, first thing find a really interesting question that plants a hole in their brain. Okay? That’s the hook. It could be 2 seconds, it could be 10 seconds. It doesn’t matter. Just make sure that it starts really strong. And the person has a need to fill this gap that you just put in their brain. Okay is that making sense so far? Now the next thing after the hook, right? And this is the first words you say. You don’t say hello, you don’t say how are you? Nothing like that. Start with the question. No fluff whatsoever. Because you have very little time. Now second thing is introduce yourself. This is optional. That’s I for introduce. Well people get it the wrong way round they say hi my name is Ken Okazaki and here’s my video and today I’m going to teach you about …. And what happens is people don’t care who I am because I’m not Beyoncé. And if I were I wouldn’t have to introduce myself. What all they care about is what can, what value can i give them, right? But If the person, if your trying to brand yourself, from coming authority then it might be appropriate to say your name there. Keep it really short three ways introduce yourself. Firstly is your name and your title. Hi I’m Ken Okazaki CEO and founder of OZ Media Global. Or it can be a best selling book they put out accomplishment. Hi I’m Ken Okazaki the first Japanese known to climb Mt. Everest in less than 30 minutes. Some major accomplishment that you are known for. And third one is who you help. Hi I’m Ken Okazaki I help entrepreneurs to help justify their brand online using video. So, that’s sort of your name plus one of those three options. Now, do not do all three. Hi I’m Ken Okazaki CEO and founder of OZ Media Global, world record breaker for dah dah dah and I help for. That gets too long. Keep it super short. And just pick one. Okay? So, again that’s your job title, your accomplishment, or who you help. Okay? So, we’ve got into I. So, hook. Hook them with the question, introduce yourself. So next is lead them on. Now if at this point I told you exactly the reason why accountants should be. Choose the one that. And then I say oh that’s interesting. And then you just leave, right? Now, it’s a bit like… when you’re preparing for a course meal or several course meal, the good stuff is at the end. And everything else before that is setting you up with anticipation for how good that’s going to be. So, at this point you going to say look a lot people don’t really get the difference between the tax benefits and did you know that this one strategy that accountants use really do account for xxx amount of money and xxx amount of time. All these different, you build up that there’s anticipation like how good is it, what did it do for you and how did it help you. Another thing is you tell the backstory of how you found out. I used to be spending over 40,000 dollars on taxes on this one issue until I figured this out it melts down to just 2,000 dollars. And I was amazed when I found this out. So these are all ways to build the anticipation. Tell them the backstory for why you found it. Or you could say I found this old newspaper just printed in 1944 and on it there was this ten tips for accountants. When I saw that I realized that actually these are lost secrets that are still applicable today. Now that will be a great lead. Right? So, whatever it takes to make the next step, well we actually teach what you’re going to teach them, whatever it takes to anticipate it just long enough so that they just begging for it to say just tell me already! Right?

Nadia: I have a question about it. A lot of American advertisements and especially in the supplement industries have you explored this particular lead them on technique too much. I click on the video and they’re promising me that they are going to answer what certain food group is causing me to gain weight or something. And they go on and on and on. They actually are losing me on the lead session because they abused it.

Ken: Yeah. They’re not doing a good job in leading.

Nadia: And yes but it’s an expensive advertisements. I can see doctors or some really large companies pay for it. The problem is it’s become too markety. Because I know this is a technique now, I know they’re catching me on it and I can feel dragged by the hook. It’s insulting being lead so openly.

Ken: Yeah. So, first of all that’s a really good question. I have definitely experienced that and that drives you around that which I call rickroll. Basically here’s the difference. Number 1, you’re giving free information to your audience to attract more people. And the tone is going to be very different. It’s not going to be the slick marketing campaign that people are putting tons of money behind. And number 2, you’re not asking for a sellout yet. You’re asking for my for a minute. And number 3 it’s very short. This is going to be about the whole thing would be about 3 minutes. So, what you spend, the time you spent on the lead will be about 30 seconds. I think that there are extremists where people take it too far. And it’s going to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Now everybody has a different style. And what’s really important is you find your own style. If it feels unnatural to you, I’d say don’t do it. Let’s fine what comes naturally to you and expand on that, and don’t try to copy somebody else style if it’s not yours. And this comes with a bit of practice.You might watch yourself and say oh you know I got too markety or to salesy on that lead then we’ll just change it up and make it flow better for you. But after I explained the entire HILDA thing, I’ll give an example how it would sound. And I think you’ll find that it actually feels quite natural.

Nadia: Okay.

Ken: And Sometimes it’s just a couple sentences. Sometimes it’s a minute, I don’t know, depending on the context.

Terence: So, one of the things that you’re saying there is kind of always bring everything that you do. We discuss this on a previous episode with Ivan Misner I think, bring everything back to your values as well. Like it becomes pretty obvious if your not being authentic and you’re not doing something that kind of sits well with your own values. And so that…

Ken: Absolutely.

Terence: kind of statement.

Ken: 100% true. It’s got to be consistent with your values. So, we’ve gotten to lead – this is where we build the excitement for the reveal. And then the deliver is where you actually tell them you have the goods. And there’s a few ways to do this. You could just say what most people get wrong is this. Like you see these misquoted memes online, right? A lot of people say Hey most people think Abraham Lincoln said this but actually what he said was this. Whatever it is you’re revealing to them, you’ve got to make sure that it is proportionate to the hook you gave them at the beginning. Now, the big overriding principle that nothing will go over, that encompasses everything and my strategy is something that I feel is really important that most people miss is that brand equals trust. And every single thing we do, there’s one question that I ask. Does this build trust with my audience? If the answer is yes, we’ll use it. If the answer is no, we’ll scrap it or fix it. So, this is where the trust factor comes in really importantly. If you said you’re going to teach them something or reveal something or answer a question, then that’s the H, the hook. Right? Now the deliver at the end, it better be what you promised and at the level that you promised. Because if it’s not, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot. You are not gaining a stable audience. Is it. Some people might click once. They might get fooled once, they might get fooled twice. But third time, you’re out for sure. They’ll give few words like I would never click that person’s video again. They led me on and they just give me garbage. Okay? So, the delivery has to be, at minimum, matching expectations. And better yet, over delivering on what you said. So, this is a really important part. So, whatever it is you going to teach, make sure that it matches. Starts to deliver. So, we’ve got to HILD. Now the very last one is A which is ask. Okay? Now, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but this has been proven by science that the best time for a woman to ask for something expensive from her husband is right after sex. And right after a really good sex. Like can I have a new fridge or can we go on that vacation? Or I saw this really great dress or an oven. I don’t know what it is. Could be a car.

Terence: Did they really do like scientific experiments?

Ken: Oh yeah. I would dig that up. Because that’s actually how…

Nadia: Or you’re just sharing you personal experience there?

Ken: Yeah. Personal experience is also in the mix.

Nadia: So, I guess your wife got the best dishwasher. With 6 kids come on.

Ken: So, there’s definitely something to be said about that. Now if you did a good job on hooking and bringing them all the way through introducing, lead, deliver. And if they feel really satisfied and happy about what you showed them, that’s the best time to ask. Now, when you ask something, this is not where you stop. Don’t say get my free newsletter. Don’t say get this. Let me send you something to your email. Don’t say join my group. This is not the time to take them to a lead magnet. Okay? Just be really clear. A lot of people who were my clients would say Okay yeah I want to get them into my funnels and we can make it sound like no. This Is not the time to be that. This is where you ask for micro commitment – something that costs no money but a tiny bit of effort. Okay? Now this is where I can ask people to like the page because that’s all. It hardly means anything anymore. It’s almost next to zero. You can ask people to either comment on it. Okay? So, there might be a question that you pose like Hey guys. So, if you agree with I said let me know and just type yes. You might ask some to tag a friend in the videos that gets expose them on their timeline. And you might ask them to share the video if it’s meaningful to them. And there is a specific way to do this too. So, there’s actually, how i teach it, first of all you identify who, right? So, either you are friend, colleague or someone else. And then qualify. Who need to laugh? Who goes to college has made this mistake? Who eats chicken? These are just kind of examples and then the action you want them to take. To share, tag, comment or join. So, you just pick one each. Say hey guys if you know a colleague who has made this mistake before, go ahead and tag them so that they can see this video and maybe they can improve. Right? Or just pick one of each of these lists and it feels really natural and it’s contextual to read and share. You’d say something like hey if you are someone who loves to eat chicken then comment below that I love chicken. So, that’s engagement facebook is going to notice the up tick in engagement there. And they’re going to give you more… I don’t know what you call it – the magic potion to show your video to more people.

Terence: Yeah. Help you out with their algorithms.

Ken: That’s what they’re going to do. So, this whole thing can get compressed in just 3 minutes. Three minutes is my goal the number. Up to five is fine. Down to 1 is fine. Three minutes has work best.

Terence: Okay. So, I’ve got a couple of questions now.

Ken: Shoot.

Terence: The first one is you said you were going to demonstrate this to us.

Ken: So, give me a topic. And I just going to pre-frame this with the fact that I don’t know what the topic’s going to be and I don’t know if it’s my expertise. So, I might just be making stuff up. But this is for the demonstration of the structure, not for the content. And I want to make that crystal clear because I’m not sure what you’re going to give me.

Nadia: Okay. Terence has done quite a few videos and they’re effective for him. I’m a novice in this. I basically absolutely petrified to be in front of a video. I usually quite often check myself out was I got some problem while I’m talking which is very big problem and that I am very self-conscious. So, allow me to be in this space. And is it okay for me to ask?

Ken: Yeah.

Nadia: Give the topic?

Ken: Yeah.

Nadia: So, I am an accountant who takes big pride not speaking Cantonese to my clients which means in a very clear language I will explain to them very complicated concepts. They need to know in order to grow business. And I will enable them to operate with those financial concepts and build their business. That’s pretty much it. So, I do not speak complicated language. I don’t speak down to them.

Ken: Can you give me example of two words that are most commonly used that always has the clan scratching like egg what does that mean? Give me two words.

Nadia: What type of legal structure would you like to put your business in?

Ken: Legal structure? Okay. Give me 1 more.

Nadia: Okay. And another one would be probably do you know the difference between budget and cash flow forecast?

Terence: So, we have to just make sure everybody who’s watching or listening this is not scripted. We have not planned this. Right? Ken is about to kind of put a bit of a structure together. He did this to me, when I say to me maybe for me, at a conference when we first met. It was pretty amazing. Let’s see what we come up with.

Nadia: Come on. Yeah.

Ken: Okay. The title on top is going to say “Two phrases that are costing your business”. Okay? So anybody who’s an, and this is going to be, you’re going to be posting this in groups where accountants are, for example, so they’re going to contextually understand it’s about accounting. Okay? So, the title is “Two phrases that are costing your business”. And some might start with something like Hey guys there’s this two phrases. And about three years ago I realized I need to stop using them. And my business literally tripled because of it and I want to share that with you today. Hi my name is Nadia and I’m an accountant just like you. So, here’s a thing. I used to… when I came out of college and I learned everything about accounting, the most important thing for me was to get the message across clearly. I wanted to use the right words and the right structure to make sure that I’m being understood me clearly. But there was a problem with that. Everybody who came from the same class as me they understood me but the people who were paying my bills, they did not understand me. And client after client after client was taking way too much amount of time because I have to explain it. And on top of it they ended up leaving me because they felt like I didn’t understand them and they obviously didn’t understand me. And I thought it was their fault. And so, I went through all the things, that all the meetings I’m with them, or over with them, and those we talked about and I realized that there just actually two simple phrases. There are a lot but there’s two main phrases that every time I said this, their eyes glass over and I realize they checked out. And once I revealed them to you you might realize that you’re using these yourself. But, here’s a thing. I took them out of my business, completely out of my vocabulary. And I translated them into much more user-friendly words which will convey the meaning without the confusion. So, if you want the meaning without confusion, if you want to retain clients and you want them to engage in conversation, you got to know this. So, here it is. Okay? These two phrases. Okay? If you say legal structure, to you that’s making sense but to them, they do not get it. They check out. Okay? Their eyes are looking at you but their eyes are glassed over their mind is at Hey I wonder who is playing football today. Okay? The other one is budget and cash flow forecast. If you say that, you know what it means. But everybody else is not as smart as you, their not as smart as us. We’re the league class of people what they’re going to think is Oh I wonder what’s cooking for dinner time? What should I buy? They check out. So, here’s a thing. Get rid of these two words and replace them with. And then blank blank blank, use whatever term you use. Replace them with these two and here’s what I can guarantee. People will listen. They’ll be more engaged. And on top of it, people will feel like you’re human not speaking what we call a Cantonese. So, let me know if I helped you. And here’s what I wanted to do. I want to convert as many accountants as possible from speaking Cantonese to speaking freaking English. So, if you know an accountant or two, do me a favor. Put their name in the comments below so they can see this video and I might help them out to. Alright see you later. Bye!

Nadia: Cool.

Terence: Legend.

Nadia: Yes.

Terence: That was awesome.

Ken: So, did I make sense to you? Did you see where I was going with the hook, the intro, the lead, the delivery and the ask?

Nadia: You know what? I didn’t because I was fascinated by content. And i was following the ingredients so you were doing it very…

Ken: This is recording right.

Nadia: It’s a high end.

Ken: By the way, what would you replace those two words for our podcast listeners who might be interested. Instead of legal structure, what do you say now?

Nadia: I say you know the clam? The sea creature lives in the sea. It has a shell. So, legal structure is like a shell for the clam and your clam is the business. So, a shell can have different. And that’s how I…

Ken: Great!

Nadia: Write My mum.

Ken: And how about budget and cash flow forecast?

Nadia: Budget is all about money coming. What you are going to invoice to your customers and what to deal with in this period of time. When forecast is when your ching ching will be coming into your bank account and when ching ching will be coming out of your bank account. At what point of time and how much you will have.

Ken: That is so good. So, you can go ahead and use a structure with almost every topic. And what I’ve done is I take in the big idea, shrunk it down to short amount of time by using a specific structure and very likely if people relate to it and they have the same similar problem, then they will share or they’ll comment and you will become known as the expert and the accountant teaching accountants.

Nadia: That sounds good. Cool.

Terence: Say good. I think Nadia was just looking for a way to share or comment like someone’s name on the video. Alright. So, I just want to come back to couple of things that we’ve kind of skimmed past and this has been great fun by the way. You said that at the end of that video, the ask point, now is the time to ask for any more of a commitment, when is the time to ask.

Ken: So, there are different strategies in place. Okay? Now a lot of this has to do with what are you offering? Like, in Nadia’s case she might be looking for more clients, for practice or she might be looking for accountants who want to take a course with her for how to better relate to clients. I’m not sure. So, since there are so many different strategies I think what might be best to just give me a scenario of what type of product or service you’re trying to market and I can give some ideas for how that would pan out.

Terence: Nady?

Nadia: So, basically I would like to get more clients and certain type of clients. And those clients are who wants to grow their business through financial awareness.

Ken: Okay. So, number one the content that you’re going to be creating is not. Like for the last one you gave me, I didn’t understand your model then. So, this… I created that to appeal to accountants. Which is okay.

Nadia: Which is fine. It’s a next level up. When you build up your successful business, I’m quite excited that you gave me this perspective. Because when you build your own business you wanted to teach the people how to do it well.

Ken: Exactly. You’re the authority. But, more likely, I would probably change it up. I would probably say something like Hey guys, have you ever sat in an accountant’s office or you call them to your desk and then they started saying stuff like legal structure, and budget and cash flow forecast. Well here’s a thing. That’s called Ac-cantonese. And my job is to help you get through all that and just understand what the fuck they’re saying. And so, here’s a thing. I made this chart of the six most commonly used terms that nobody gets. And on the right side that’s what it would really means. So, I just going to read off those to you. And it’s a cheat sheet so you can translate what that means. And every time, no matter what accountant comes in, whether they speak Ac-Cantonese or English, it doesn’t matter. You’re going to just scroll this cheat sheet and that’s for free I’m going to give it to you. And let me know if there’s anything else i can help you with Okay? So, the micro commitment wouldn’t be that… I think you just, you give it to them for free without a need for them to opt in or anything. You can’t do an opt in because they are business owners, they might be more likely to. They’re not employees. So, I think… In your case will you say you’re a boutique practice or a…

Nadia: Yes we are boutique and I’m getting really developing also I’m a financial planner as well developing a special offer for a particular type of people and that’s what I would be calling myself I am going to have a great focus on financial feasibility of divorce.

Ken: Okay. So, would you say you specialize in divorce?

Nadia: Well, I will be as a financial planner. In my capacity in financial planning and advising. I believe people spend so much money or/and time of course it’s the same thing eventually on arguing and lawyers, if they were to invest as a couple, this money what they yet to spend on lawyers, again invest it, they would, return on investment would be great. Therefore they agreeing to it then seeing financial outcomes before they go into the battle and argy bargy, would be very beneficial. Obviously they have to be open for this process and it’s a movement going to be taken up by lawyers first and then of course they would need accountants who will and the financial planners who will help a client to see their burden of divorce and not then plan for this down this awful path.

Ken: And do you think that’s going to be the main focus of your practice?

Nadia: Well the main focus of this product which I’m going to an offering which I might design.

Ken: Okay. So, I know, I still know very little. You gave me a good explanation. I think with divorce is, in your experience is that usually something that happens suddenly or over a long period of time?

Nadia: Causes for horses.

Ken: Like?

Nadia: Some couples, it’s usually one partner gets ready for divorce within period of five years. They’re planning in their head. The other partner, usually the other party is not aware what’s happening. So, it’s one is always worse off, and this is what happens when people in completely different mindset approaching a lot of arguments happening, a lot of guilt, a lot of anger, and that makes people very irrational and they lose a lot of money.

Ken: Okay. I think I’ve got a good picture. So, because it’s a long period of time… At first I was thinking if it’s a sudden thing like, for example maybe a medical emergency, then gets me a straight call to action because people don’t have time to get warmed up. But because it’s a long period of time then it’s definitely worth it to make a lot of videos that address people’s biggest pains and frustrations about that process. Okay? You identify the seven biggest ones make those videos. Get them really professionally done because you’re going to be using these videos over and over and over for a long period of time. Now the second step after that is to get people to subscribe to what we call the core beliefs. Like what are the principles that you run your business on. Now this sounds like a long process but building trust is what it’s all about here. You don’t want to get people to as a knee jerk reaction when they think I need a professional accountant to sort out this mess. They automatically think of you. And if you’re available you can take them. It’s more like they’re requesting for you to help them, not you’re asking for their business. Right? That’s the position you want to be in. And if you do it right, that’s what will happen. Third step is this. You will have a couple of ads made whether they’re video or text or graphics. Anyone else will work. Of course I recommend video, I think are the most effective. But at that point there is an ad where there’s a direct call to action to call for your service. Now this ad gets shown specifically to people who have watched. We can control this to watch your other videos at least 50%. In other words it’s not accidental, they intentionally watched it. Okay? And we can set the tolerance for how many of those videos they watched how long they’ve watched. So, then we can gauge how hot of a lead they are. And of course we can target depending on location and things like that. So, I want to make sure we’re not wasting money on people who are in another country for example. So once we have that all sorted out, what happens is because you put effort into building what I call the long term strategy of branding, then the marketing and the sales become very easy. So, imagine you have a line and you have… And there’s a balance between marketing, branding and sales. Right? Sales all the way up this side. There we are. And branding is on this side. So, most people have a little bit of brandy. A lot of marketing and a lot of sales. So, what I push that needle all the way over here where it’s like 80 percent branding the effort is there and then the marketing and sales it’s just a slippery, a nice, very well-lubricated path to finding you and asking for your business.

Terence: How do you find that affects the sales side of things, right? Because the obvious thing is well all of a sudden your branding a whole lot and then marketing less and selling a lot less.

Nadia: I think… Can I see where I understood your gist is by building a really inviting brand, really desirable things. You’ll evoke people’s desire to reach out. And this…
Ken: Exactly.

Nadia: this market is very easy. So, what you do you pre-hit them so much and make your brand desirable that they go look for it.

Terence: Yeah. I mean we’re into…

Ken: Exactly.

Terence: Pull rather than push.

Nadia: Yes.

Terence: Yes. So, but what effect have you found Ken?

Ken: Let me just go back one moment for that.

Terence: Yeah.

Ken: This is not for everybody. This kind of strategy. Because if you are somebody who has a low gadget and you want them make a bunch of sales, like for example a commodity, then you should probably go straight for the sale because people aren’t going to remember the brand. But if you’re somebody who is willing to commit for the long term, and what that means is establish yourself as the authority for years to come, then this is worth every bit of effort. It’s worth making all the videos for free. It’s worth thinking about how much effect it’s going to have over the long period of time. And building a community of followers around you who perceive you automatically as the authority just without question. And that’s the holy grail there. It’s when people think accountant, automatically it’s Nadia. So, if someone thinks tennis it’s usually like Serena Williams, right? Someone thinks… Whatever the category is, we want your name to be on the tip of the tongue without hesitation. Now, that sounds like a bold statement. I’d like to set my goal’s pretty high so that the harder I work to get there, most likely the closest, closer would get. So, it’s a long term play. You’re not going to get sales tomorrow. You won’t get a million views tomorrow most likely. That’s one of my clients did but that’s a rare exception. It usually takes, it’s a building up ramp, Okay? So, that’s the disclaimer that this is not for quick turnaround sales this is for people who want to build an establishment and be known for what they do best long term. Does that make sense?

Terence: Yeah.

Ken: Yeah. And I prefer working with those kind of people anyway. People who just want a sale tomorrow, that it’s so much effort for a short amount of time, and then after that there’s nothing left. For example the cash you got in your pocket. You didn’t really build trust or community, you just made sales. Alright? And then you gotta do it all over again for the next sale. Yeah exactly.

Terence: Yeah. I mean that you’re building value out there as you say that’s… I like what you said brand equals trust. I also think about it is that your brand is the way you make someone feel. And I think they kind of go hand in hand. One thing you mentioned a little bit earlier was the rickroll.

Ken: So, have you ever watched that video?

Terence: No.

Ken: No. Okay. So, this probably six or seven years ago. There was this Internet prank going around. And what people do is it’s a really catchy headline like hey check out this link. It’s the new iPhone that just got leaked. Actually that just happened last night. That was interesting. But something catchy like Oh I found this video of you, have you seen it? Something that emotionally want, that’s going to get the person to click. Right? And when you click on it, there’s this really cheesy 80s pop song of this British pop star named Rick Astley. And it just became this on-going joke. If you could get someone to click and watch that video, it says gotcha. Right? So, that was kind of funny. But the thing is let’s say Terence you sent me a link Hey Ken, I just saw this thing, this amazing thing, check it out. And I click on it. And I’m like haha very funny Terence. Right? And the next day you send me another link I saw this video of you on Australian TV. Is this really you? And I click on it the second time. And I’ll be like he got me again. The third time it will happen. I would just like I’m not going to click it a single time again. I automatically have put you outside of my circle of trust . I’m like okay this guy got me twice, he’s not going to get me again. Now this is what I call rickrolling because a lot of times and Nadia I think you talked about this earlier. You watch this video and someone says hey I want to share with you something important, right? And then they lead on and on and on and on. And then you realize about 5 minutes or maybe 10 minutes in, wait a second this whole thing is setting me up for sale. You went in there expecting something good and free and then you realize you got tricked into watching sales video. Now, that person maybe you can get away with it one more time or two more times but no more. You will block them. You might even report them as spam. But you will never trust them again. So, I’ll turn it into rickrolling. Rickrolling is when you say one thing, you’ll say you’re going to give something for free and you try to sell to them. Some people will buy but you’re not building trust in the community. You’re absolutely you. So, I don’t recommend that. I have a rule and it’s one of my core beliefs is never waste more than 5 seconds of someone’s life. So, if you’re going to sell something in a video, which I have nothing against sales videos, these are important. But if you’re going to do a sale, in the first 5 seconds you have to make it clear that it’s a sale. Alright? And you will probably only show this to the people, you’re very potential customers – people who would watch a lot of these videos. For example in the beginning, you can do it very elegantly for example. You can say Hey guys, My name’s Ken. I’m glad you’ve been watching my videos. I put together this great course that I want to explain to you. Is that alright? And then from the beginning implies that I’m explaining something excellent product that they’re going to want to buy. If I just go on and on and on talking about how great something is and then they find out to sell later, that really sucks. Right? So, that’s one of the important things – never waste more the 5 seconds sounds like. Right in the beginning, let them know elegantly that you’re going to try to sell something. Now, you might get lower sales in the beginning but in the long term, you will have more loyal community and it will be easier to sell in the future.

Terence: Yeah. And you’re building trust still.

Ken: Yup. You’re maintaining that trust, you’re building it.

Nadia: What breaks my trust is this trickery in it. If I find I’ve been trick into it. And if there is an element of deceit, I don’t trust them anymore. Therefore they,

Ken: They lost you forever, right?

Nadia: Exactly.

Ken: Never again.

Terence: Finally. Alright. Ken we’ve covered some pretty cool stuff so I’d love to go back over everything but I think I’m going to have to listen to the episode first myself. But thanks for sharing everything with us. HILDA. I love the rickroll. I love hockey puck titles and it was really, it’s been great to catch up with them…

Nadia: You missed the important one at the beginning.

Terence: The most important. Which one? Tell me.

Nadia: SHIT.

Ken: That’s right.

Terence: Well I didn’t forget about it.

Nadia: You just didn’t want me to mention that ever again.

Ken: Hey you said no boundaries, right?

Nadia: Yes.

Terence: Yeah. Nadia…

Ken: I usually say it’s the poop strategy. It’s like alright, just call it what it is.

Terence: Well I know. It Is what it is. How can our listener connect with you Ken?

Ken: Well, I think probably the best way is my Facebook page which is That’s where you can see what I’ve been doing lately. The second one is my website

Nadia: And the when is your most proudest moment? Like what is your latest that you would just say that’s my poster child work?

Ken: So, there is a client whose name is Pang Jun. He’s Malaysian. Now I don’t know if he’s ever going to hear of this. But here’s the truth. He’s a short Asian guy. Okay? He is good looking but he’s not Brad Pitt. Okay? I love the guy to bits. Now when he first started out, he was a terrible speaker. And now he speaks and I believe he’s probably either the second or third highest-paid selling speaker in the world. And what we’ve done with him is we’ve taken his brand from being, already somewhat successful, but we’ve grown it over 2 million fans on Facebook. And he is getting a lot of business to initial products all through the branding videos that my agency creates for him. So, his style is very different from a lot of people. He wants it to look ghetto, to look like it’s homemade. But the important thing is that people trust him. It looks like something that maybe even he did himself. But that’s why it feels real. And even though our agency can handle a lot of things, there’s a certain look that we manufacture sometimes to make people feel more approachable. If it’s too polished then people feel like it’s one of those scammy sleazy salesman. Right? So, I love Pang Jun. He’s had phenomenal success using our product, our service. And on top of it you can see right away it’s not something that was an actual skill. If you know the systems and you get some coaching and you follow the process, I think literally anybody in the world can reach that level of success. So, that’s my proudest moment really.

Nadia: Well done. I like 1 thing you just said the secret that he likes the ghetto style. Here we are sitting in a ghetto trying to make this selfie and he is trying to make them style as a selfie. So, it’s interesting. It’s also circle. In Australia at the moment, there is a big movement making video looking polished and professional. So, the next thing we can be level up and start making ghetto videos.

Terence: IPhone videos.

Ken: Well, here is what I think works really well. It’s number 1 and I think Terence you know about the system called the Hydra, Right? So, you have a mix of those, okay? Like for example I’ve already seen Will Smith on movies right? Right? It is. Hollywood is… Nothing is more polished than Hollywood. Period. Now he’s starting to direct his own little episode using his iPhone. Now he’s got a boat, he’s got the super polished and he’s got the personal ghetto style. So, I think you really do need to get your professional videos done. Okay? Which part people see like that person is a real professional. At the same time, you share something like it’s going to be based on our life. Hey this is me going to the gym. This is my favorite shake in the morning. Every time I wake up before I do this I always meditate. Whatever. So all the little things about you that people can see and feel that you’re a real person and not just an image. So, we categorize them. We got the super professional polished look. Then we have the 30-days in our life type of videos. And both are important. I think that you got to play both sides of the spectrum. And there’s just so much more that goes into deciding on. It’s like where you’re going to shoot them, what mood you’re going to be in. The system I call the Seven Dwarfs were like today I’m Doc. So, Doc is always teaching stuff. He gives facts and figures. Or today I’m Grumpy. Grumpy is always ranting. Grumpy is always calling people out. Grumpy is always talking about a little bit more edgy nature. Right? And you’ve got Dopey who’s like Hey I’m on your side. It’s okay, it’s not your fault. So, you got to track well who you’re going to be, where you’re going to be and what you’re going to talk about. And there’s a system to get this 30-days in life done. Really elegantly and really really easily. And I know we’re out of time. I’m sorry if I’ve taken too much time. But I just want to address that. It’s important to get both. And you want to be as much of a well-rounded appearance on social media as you can be. That builds trust. It all leads back to that.

Nadia: So, oh Ken. I would like to tell you I’m very thankful that Terence introduced us. I did not believe I will, I would have that much fun talking to a videographer. Sorry if I’m just calling you this. You probably so much more than that. Strategist. And there is a lot of science behind your very quirky names. You give them abbreviation and they’re very catchy as well. What I do feel like I am just touch the surface of what you do now. That’s how you’re leaving to me wanting more episodes with you. Tell us something, some cool stuff and we will be so happy to have you again. What about you? I just made a decision for both of us. Is it okay with you?

Ken: I’d be happy to.

Terence: Yeah.

Ken: I tell you what. Just bring Terence and I’m cool. If it’s just me and a Russian in the same room, that could be scary. Like…

Nadia: Seriously? Is that what you’re going to tell me? Okay. Well…

Ken: Nadia.

Terence: We’d love to have you on again Ken.

Ken: Thank you. Thank you.

Nadia: It’s alright.

Ken: And is It okay if I put in a plug here or something?

Terence: Yeah. Sure.

Ken: Is that alright?

Nadia: We will cut it off, it’s alright. Yeah. Go ahead.

Ken: Well, you’re the editor in the end. So, actually I’ve been for some time, that should be a few months ago, I realized that I maxed out how much time I want to be working with clients. So, it’s not exactly the same case all the time. But there was a point where I felt like I’m way too overworked. It’s travelling, working with clients even though I love it. So, I decided I wanted to make a program that teaches people how to do it on their own. So, install these systems so that you can have repeatable success. And it’s also going to be… well I have a system for batching things. There’s instructions for editors, training for the speaker how to monetize the videos. I have lessons for that. And I’m putting together an 8-week course. And Terence knows about this. And then, I just been… I’m a bit of a perfectionist…

Nadia: He didn’t tell me that. He was hiding it.

Terence: You didn’t ask.

Nadia: He wanted just learn and then stand up as a…

Ken: Well here’s a thing. And it does take a bit of time and I’ve got a lot of things that will help, you know teaching aids and things like that. So, this is going to become available most likely in about one month from now. And I think that on the next podcast which I do commit to having with you, if it’s okay with you. I’d like to introduce it. Is that alright?

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: Yes. Anything our listeners can have an unfair advantage from, you;re welcome. Because I don’t feel like you’re plugging something in, you’re giving value. It’s very hard to sell something what our listeners don’t benefit from. But if it’s something will launch their successful career or successful business, it’s you’re very welcome. It’s all about giving value.

Ken: Thank you. And that’s what I love doing. I love doing that. If I’m not giving value then what am I doing? It’s really that simple.

Nadia: Okay. Sounds Good.

Terence: Totally. Alright Ken, thanks.

Ken: Thank you guys.

Terence: That was loads of fun. Almost as much fun as our first conversation that we ever had.

Ken: You’re making her jealous, aren’t you?

Terence: I am. I am letting Nadia know what she missed out on. And… But now it’s great to have you on. Thanks for giving us so much value in this episode. Thanks for being part of the Unfair Advantage Projects. We’d love to have you back on again. And I hope to talk to you again soon.

Thanks for listening to the Unfair Advantage Project. For more curated resources, visit us at


About Us
The Business Coach.
Terence is the founder and Managing Director of StrategiQ Corporation, a serial entrepreneur and experienced business operator who has founded, bought, grown and sold several … see more


About Us
The Super Nerd.
Are you passionate about the ins and outs out of taxation legislation? With Nadia by your side, you don’t need to be. Accounting and financial planning isn’t just her … see more

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