Episode 6: Who Am I? With Lisa Stephenson

Narrator: Welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project - unique perspectives, practical insights, and unexpected discoveries directly focused on giving you the unfair advantage. Introducing your hosts Nadia Hughes and Terence Toh.

Terence: Hi and welcome to the Unfair Advantage Project. I'm Terence, I'm the creator and managing director of StrategiQ Corporation. And today here is my co-host Nadia.

Nadia: Yes, thank you Terence. I'm an accountant. I am the most exciting professional in the world. And I'm extremely excited more than exciting. And today we are talking to Lisa Stephenson and I am so happy that you said yes. Thank you so much for coming to this podcast.

Terence: So, Lisa is the author of Read Me First, a book just releasing now.

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: She's a global speaker, leadership consultant and a success coach, and founder of the global Australian-based consulting firm Who Am I Project. So, welcome Lisa and thanks for being here with us today. It's a glorious day outside and we're in here and we're going to have, hopefully, a nice conversation.

Nadia: What do you mean hopefully? There’s no other way. Lisa comes to the podcast, you don't have a choice. Lisa, can you just go straight to the podcast mode and I am so excited you actually released this book you were talking about you're going to write. Initially, if I didn't know you, I would think this is a very ambitious title.

Lisa: Right.

Nadia: But knowing you, I think it's probably more the start.

Lisa: Thank you.

Nadia: So, the book called me Read Me First. What is this book about? Why the title?

Lisa: It's a good question and hopefully it's a good title. So, firstly thank you for having me. It is cool to be here and it is a beautiful day and look at us all very important with mugs and big microphones and everything. So, it is nice to be here and it's nice to take the time. Actually, I find podcasts are a really great way of stopping to connect and reflect and are quite useful for me to think about where I am now. Thank you for inviting me. So, Read Me First. Why is it called that? and I must say the most challenging part of producing this book was the title. Which I didn't know when I was actually writing it. So Read Me First came about as a working title because about nine years ago, I very suddenly found myself as a single mum of three small children and needing to work out a way to create a new version of life that would allow me to be the mum that I wanted to be and have the career that I wanted, needed to have. And I kind of wish this book had been on the shelf at that time because I could hear that little entrepreneurial voice calling and I knew it was something that I wanted to do and that there's risk in that. And I remember reading all kinds of fantastic books actually. But what I wanted to do was write something where, if someone finds himself in the position where they are wanting to start something or stop something or perhaps they mid flow in that first few years of growing a business, they might want to change their career, start or leave a relationship. What are all the things that I should think about before I change something in my life? So, Read Me First before I start the next chapter. What do you think? Does that work?

Nadia: Yes, it's pretty much works for me. And again, it's just when I pick this book I smiled. Then when I start reading the first pages, the book was written in such a light language and it's so recognizable. It's just like a conversation with you. Without any flattery, I tell you straight away that it sucked me in the first few pages. I wanted to know more. I probably have unfair advantage because I do know who is Lisa Stephenson. Well I think I do.

Lisa: You do.

Nadia: And I am admiring the way that you have built from such a desperate situation of being a single mum. You build this multimillion dollar business. Am I allowed to disclose figures?

Lisa: Sure.

Nadia: Is it okay to call it multimillion dollar business?

Lisa: You are my accountant, yeah.

Nadia: And also, you’re just well known. You call yourself coach but what really is? What a beautiful coach would be? How can you elevate this word cause you're not in the same role with us coaches out there. And it's international renowned name, Lisa Stephenson. You are asked to go to US. You are flying one moment and the next moment. You somehow already in Asia, roaming around.

Lisa: Roaming around Asia. Hopefully doing a bit of work while I’m there.

Nadia: Yeah. All business obviously. And so, do have to claim deductions for that. And it's just amazing. And the next moment, I'm calling you, you're already here. You need to catch up and do some few things and planning and everything. How did it all happen? From this desperate situation. And are you crazy? I'm so sorry. As a mother, I want to ask you when you’re in desperate situation, first thing people go is getting a part-time job.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: Who in right state of mind goes into business? And not just a little business, goes into business of just having this complete picture of what the wealth looks like. When I read you, and I talk too much, but I was blown away. I knew I wanted to one day buy a home for my children I had a dream to buy a beatbox. I really wanted to travel to Italy with my family. A self-sustaining business, doing meaningful work was critical version in my success. Have I…

Lisa: Yes, you have. That is in the book. Yeah.

Nadia: And this was, like I'm reading this page and I'm going, thinking here's Lisa, have children obviously, a little bit upset and distressed, and this vision and sustainable business says well. Please now explain to me what does it take for a human being to take it off the ground. How was it humanly possible?

Lisa: Yes. So firstly, crazy is a word that is used to refer to me often.

Nadia: I’ve got very limited vocabulary so forgive me if I choose words which upset or offend you. I’m very apologetic to my audience. But however, I do have limitations.

Lisa: Yes. So, thank you for all of that. And do you know what the answer to that is not a particularly sexy answer. Because the way that it has evolved is because I've worked really hard. There's, I think, in growing a business and having a big vision, there is no shortcut Nadia. There is no way to kind of just make that happen. I've never met anyone yet, who is an overnight success. So, the short answer is that I have worked really hard. I've had to adapt my plan. I've had to surround myself with great people. I've compromised a lot. There's things that I've missed out on or not been able to have or do. The mother guilt is always real. I've stayed quite true to my vision about the sanctuary and home that I wanted to create for my children. Very clear about my purpose. I changed to able to deliver for our clients. And it's almost like, anyone in business has to have a compass. What's the bit that you come back to and if you don't have that very clearly identified in your mind, you will lose your way.

Nadia: If I do, as you said clear to my purpose. What is your Lisa Stephenson purpose in life?

Lisa: Yeah. So, there's a whole lot of really fancy books on this. When I think about purpose, it's when I put my head on the pillow at night, do I feel good about who I've been in the world today? It's a really simple way of thinking about it. But that's my bench test is to kind of reflect on my day and think was something different in the world. Was I the best mum that I could be? And of course I don't always get this stuff right. There's plenty of days I actually cried my pillow rather than celebrating. But for me purpose is, did it feed my soul? Was I clear about what I needed to deliver? Did I learn something? Did I get a bit uncomfortable? Are there people out there who are perhaps doing or living their life differently as a result of the coaching or conversation or event that they've heard me speak out?

Nadia: And you just mentioned the word uncomfortable. Did I feel uncomfortable? So, I going through my personal goals and I just realise this one very valid lesson for out of all my misfortunes back. It's place of uncomfort. You never learn from place comfort. You always learn from a place of discomfort. So, your life puts you in such an uncomfortable position.

Lisa: Yeah, that's one word. It was uncomfortable to suddenly be a single mom.

Nadia: Well it's a euphemism.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: And you said also having to plan. What's you use, what were your first steps. So, what we're talking about, kids?

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: First steps.

Lisa: Yes. So, I actually remember sitting at my kitchen bench and knowing that I was going to have to move to a new house and that my children potentially couldn't stay in school that they were in and we and we did end up meeting schools. And I sat at my kitchen bench and went what is going to be the thing that gets me through this? Before I could even get to a plan, you're not in a state to create a plan or to think creatively or necessarily, even trust yourself, when you're in trauma or grief. And we all have those times in life I think. But what I did say was what am I going to choose for me? And what I chose, which sounds a bit, I don't know it now, but I chose curiosity. I chose…

Nadia: I love it. I absolutely love it.

Lisa: I thought. When I feel fearful, and many of us live with fear in all different ways – fear of failing, fear of relationships, fear of not making it in our career, all kinds of things. But I thought when I feel totally overwhelmed with the thought of how I'm going to raise these three children on my own, I'm going to choose curiosity instead. So, I'm going to ask of questions and I'm going to wonder what I'm capable of and what's possible. And I won't ever be a bitter ex-wife. I'll be a curious ex-wife. How's he doing? How are the kids doing? What does everybody need? When I think about my plan, coming back to your question Nadia around what will my future look like, instead of feeling anxious or excited or that all of those things felt a bit fleeting to me, I'm going to be curious about my future. So, everyday I'm kind of write in my journal. What else could I have done today? Did I get uncomfortable today? Did I achieve the things that I wanted to? So, I just got really curious about possibility and me. And I'm really fascinated by as adults and grown-ups. We often find out what we're capable of because of something a trigger.

Terence: Yes.

Lisa: Don't you think?

Nadia: It's a forced resilience.

Lisa: It is a forced resilience and I think most of us as adults have in our lifetimes where things go wrong. Very few of us get off lightly, do we?

Terence: Well if you don’t have something that goes wrong, there probably is something wrong.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. I agree. Most of us have a relationship that breaks down or we might have a sick child or we're made redundant and we had no idea that was coming. For most of us, there are some incidents or some experiences that we have that really test us. And it's who we are that matters. What I'm fascinated by is, why we have to have those experiences to find out what our true potential is? Like is the greatest life hackable? How do I find out what I can really do with my life without having to go through trauma?

Terence: Hmmm. That goes pretty deep. But I think back to all of the experiences that I've had, my worst experiences have become probably my greatest assets. Many things that I've learnt the most from so I tend to agree with that. And what I love throughout the stories that you've told in the book is that where you say you've chosen curiosity. You obviously went through some really tough times and you kind of instead of choosing to be bitter about it, you seem to have just chosen another way which is a better way. You've looked towards the future rather than dwelling in the past. Is that kind of?

Lisa: Yeah. I mean I've certainly had moments of indulgence. Terence let’s be real.

Terence: Yeah.

Lisa: It might have involved a bottle of wine and looking back yes and feeling real sadness and grief and some anger and all of those things because I think we're such complex space aren't we. There is a process that we need to go through. But I think what makes the difference is that we say well I'll do that for tonight but tomorrow morning I'm going to get up and have a shower, and make the kids a great breakfast, and get about my day. It's how we sort of self-manage that. And it's what we do with that. So, if I have a bad day or sometimes bad week or it's okay well nothing's actually different as a result of that, which can be really frustrating. So, like I cried and used all those tissues and I sat in the bottom of the shower and the bill still had to be paid.

Terence: And there is still an empty bottle of wine.

Lisa: And there is still an empty bottle of wine. Sorry. So, it's not that I haven't had those moments. It's just that I take them for what they are, and I process them, and I take responsibility for them, and then I go about what else. There's no point if I don't turn that into something. And I'm very aware that I'm a role model to my children. And I think the skill of resilience is almost the most important gift we can give our kids actually.

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: I agree with you. And another thing I do want to, maybe you can help me to understand this, a lot of human now more than ever, are going through separation. Social dynamics has changed. People break up all the time. I have to deal with it on client level as well as my own personal level. They’ll be going through the notion of grief. Grief has a huge energy in which you can channel. There is a choice. This is where I think people have a choice. Grief it's a lot of biology going behind the grief and what it really is in our brain. And this energy can propel us far. So, some women like let's say Nicole Kidman or Lisa Stephenson, they go along the way.

Lisa: Wait. Hang on. Did you just put the name Lisa Stephenson and Nicole Kidman in the same sentence? That's going to be a career highlight for me. Did we get that?

Terence: Yeah. I think we get that.

Nadia: You’re both Australians to me.

Lisa: Is that all it was? Okay, not maybe so significant.

Terence: Two resilient Aussie.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: This is the amazing part. What do you think it suggest? It’s a heroine story. It’s a story of a woman who use the energy of your grief and create good in the world. You then went on your business. You have your family to take care for, it’s your prime as a mother. You had to look after your kids. And then you just went off to just uncomplete world mission of changing the way people feel not about only themselves but redesigning, restructuring, rewinding relationships in life and businesses. And what are you coaching them those people there? They’re paying a lot of money for just listening to Lisa Stephenson. I want to know what are you telling them in this session.

Lisa: Hang on. I don't think it's a lot of money. No, let’s not talk about that. They’re paying plenty amount of money for the coaching conversation.

Nadia: So, this podcast is about getting to this high-end specialist.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: And sorry, I'm just getting on this level. And if it offends you, you can forgive me later. But can we talk about it now?

Lisa: Sure.

Terence: I think Nadia is asking for some coaching on the spot.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: I just want to know my business clients. They are in the position of desperation. They are sitting in their house and don't know how to pay their suppliers. They call these challenges of life, like you have been.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: You had the cash flow crisis in the past. When you realise, you have to take kids out of school. The same happens in the business as well. Nothing different. I would put this person in front of you, what would you start with him?

Lisa: Yeah. So, there is a really important coaching conversation I think that happens and it is a good question Nadia because, I don't know the numbers but we could make sum up, let's not. But there are literally thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs, innovators, creators, small business people in this country. And we know a lot of them fail and there's lots of reasons why that happens. And when people come in have got coaching conversations with me, I normally start there's four things I kind of look at. One is, are they clear about the vision and the plan? The second thing is, do they know what reality looks like for their business? So, what are their blockers? Who are their key stakeholders? What's the reality of what they're pitching? In essence, if I was summarizing that, what is their unique positioning statement in this country around what they're offering? The next thing I do is spend some time working through with them, what all of the opportunities actually are. Sometimes we just don't know what we don't know and we're so far in it. And we can feel like we're drowning a bit actually, particularly in that small business world. So, what are the questions that they haven't asked? What are the questions that they don't know the answers to? Who is potentially in their network that they haven't considered yet? And the fourth thing is, what are they actually doing? Who are they doing it with? If you think about the Ws I call it, who, when are they doing it and they got really great time frames in place that they are quite attached to? And what's actually happening as a result of that in the short term long term? I generally look at sort of up to two and five years in terms of their plan. And it can take a number of coaching sessions just to work out that first part. what really is my vision here? What is the goal of this business? Am I really clear and can I articulate what success will look like for us? So, often I find in business, we are going along to get along. Like we're doing what's required to make sure that everyone can get paid. and that the next wave of business is flowing through. whether it's a product or a service. And it's really difficult to kind of get off what I call that dance floor moment. When you’re in it and stand up on the balcony and review the business and have clarity on that. Full stop. Did that make sense?

Terence: Yes.

Nadia: Absolutely.

Terence: So, my question from all of that is, you're reviewing those four main areas. Do you find that there's one particular area that everyone gets stuck on? Or the majority of people really get stuck on like that? What's that probably the number one challenge that they're having out of those four areas?

Lisa: Yeah. I think the biggest challenge is the reality gets skipped over. They forget to do the reality check or that feels too hard or they're not quite sure where to start. So, if I work out where they're heading and then my job, sometimes in conversation that is about business, is to say what is the reality here? What's the strength in your staff? Do people want to buy you or your product? Do you really know who your competitors are? Is this even what you want to do? There’s something really personal about running a business. And so, when you start into the reality check of is this kind of what you thought it would be, if someone had said to you it will be a hundred hours a week, and it'll keep you awake at night, and you'll be putting in some of it, you'll be self-funding, would you have said yes or no? So that reality check I think is where there's a bit of pain.

Terence: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah..

Terence: That comes back to something you said earlier which is there is no shortcut to success.

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: And I actually, I don't know, I started to get a little bit annoyed with my Facebook feed because I think all these people trying to sell shortcuts. Everything is about how can I sell you a shortcut? We make business look easy, we make it look exciting, we make it profitable from day one, we can get you there in. You get all these promises, we can get you there and in seven days or whatever the case is. Get all the clients you need.

Nadia: Success express. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. Where does she get this from?

Terence: Nadia have a habit. She has a habit of making-up words. We haven't done an episode yet where we haven't had something made-up.

Lisa: Success express. Yeah. Good, Love it.

Terence: But you think people are getting caught up in this, just…

Nadia: Magic bullet.

Terence: shortcut to success.

Lisa: The magic bullet. Oh, she’s got another one. Yeah, we’re getting all of these down. But yeah. Look we are, I actually think that applies to all of life not just business. We want to lose weight quickly. We want money quickly. We want success quickly. We want everything to be quite convenient. We still want to have time to do the things in life that we really love. And I don't mean that in terms of us being lazy, I think we're just so used to pressing buttons on things and things getting delivered really quickly. And so, everything in life is about fast-paced, whether it's past results. We want all of it.

Nadia: We are caught-up bistro style. I think all of us.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: Just fast food that leads us to faster.

Lisa: There's, some of that is great. Like if you look at the world right now, we have never ever had more access to everything we need to be awesome. We've got access to information, we've got access to really healthy food in this country. We've got access to all kinds of expert, thought leaders. We are in such a blessed position right now in terms of how the world operates. And yet we've got extremely high rates of self-harm, mental health issues, obesity. There's a real disconnect there, isn't there? That we've got all the tools in front of us to lead really rich, robust, healthy, resilient lives. And yet, some of us feel quite stark. I mean, you mentioned Nadia earlier the divorce rate in this country. And when I speak to people that, often they actually feel really isolated. It's a really isolating experience for people and yet nearly half the country who is married is having that similar experience. So, there's something that's not quite coming together. And the reality is that Terence, if I think about your point around this quick fix stuff, is business doesn't work that way. It doesn't. Even in writing this book. Like we don't know what we don't know, right? And if someone had said to me well it will be 300 hours of you sitting at a desk, then you'll need physio for your neck and there will be graphic designers and editors and proofers. There even are different people who knew. And there's that there's a cover person and there'll be meetings. And would you actually say yes to the hard work? And for some people the answer is no.

Nadia: What’s your answer?

Lisa: I'm not prepared to do that.

Nadia: But what’s your answer?

Lisa: Well my answer was yes. Although I didn't know, I didn't know.

Nadia: You said yes on ignorance.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: And now you dedicate it. What is the second book will look like?

Lisa: Oh, stop it. Stop it.

Nadia: Come on, what’s the second book?

Lisa: I’m still in trauma from this one. Well, all I could say is watch this space Nadia cause there’ll be be…

Nadia: Of course, I will.

Lisa: I learned so much through this process. It's actually, writing a book is a very confronting and challenging process. There's nothing quick easy about writing a book.

Nadia: For me, somebody who writes a book, obviously when they sincere to your level not when they just want about the information or things like that. But the real sincere.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: I always can blame my accent. I didn’t mean what I said. But reading your book, what I do feel it's like walking in sanctuary of intimacy of you, Lisa you. And you just sharing this moment when you curled up in the shower. You won’t be talking like that to a stranger. But I'm walking into you very private world through the book.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: And I'm feeling very privileged walking through because this book is written authentically. This written with a heart. And this is what stood out. And of course, being in the writing back then business, I do understand that just so much editing. And you write from your heart and you read them and you think it's wonderful. And then you come and edit it just chops it, chops it. And you rewrite on eight times, there’s no place for synthesis anymore. You just want to go. Well that's a hard work. It's a lay by work to produce written piece of material, I have full appreciation. So, when I see a book and when the book is actually written wonderfully and still have this synthesis, and there’s no fatigue in the end of the book, it's still quite robust. I think it's something. I really think it's something. What I do want to focus in the book page 107. That's how much I’ve read about this book.

Lisa: Page what?

Nadia: 107.

Lisa: What did I…

Terence: Do you remember what you’ve wrote or said?

Lisa: What did I say?

Nadia: You wrote about rock star. Building business is rock star. I want to imagine you that this camera is not a camera. It’s a business owner.

Lisa: Oh yes, the thought provoking number 17.

Nadia: Yes.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: Yes. My favorite for something. I don't know, it really strikes me. Because I want to be a rock star myself. I never will be. It just I’ve settled…

Lisa: You're just your own version of that.

Nadia: Yes. Oh well.

Terence: Garbage carrier.

Nadia: Garage Band. And driving here, I was listening to Queen heroes, really good singer. I believe that was Freddie Mercury. But anyway, what I'm talking about rock star. Can you just imagine this is in front of you, a business owner. Can you tell them, in your full Lisa Stephenson passion. How they should build the business?

Lisa: Yeah. So, okay. This is important. And I'm clearly not really referencing music when I talk about the rock star version of you. The reason I called it that is because when we look at the rock stars that most of us know and love, if you look at a Bono for example, they are so passionate about what they do. They live and breathe music every day. They write, they listen to other artists, they go to concerts, they sit in their studios for days on end. They live and breathe what is the world and their passion. And I think there's something really important for that, about that for us as business owners. Are we living and breathing our business? And it's quite all consuming. And there would certainly be people listening to this saying well actually that's not what success would look like for me. But in my experience, that is what is required to establish a business. I have to live it and breathe it, fall in love with it, have arguments with it, get frustrated, threaten to leave, come back, bring the very best version of me to that. And so, what's interesting about this is that we have research that indicates that most of us leave about 60 percent of our potential at high end. And what that means is not that we're lazy or we don't care or we're not passionate, but we're so caught up in being busy. We're so caught up in going about our day jobs and getting the to do list on, and juggling…

Nadia: And you said busy is not sexy.

Lisa: Busy is not sexy.

Nadia: The book just said it and I go bingo!

Lisa: It's really not. In fact, it's a word I try not to use. My life might be full, I might be in the jungle on that particular day, it might be a cray-cray day. But when we say we're busy, essentially what we're saying is I haven't quite prioritized my day in a way that works for me. Or I'm feeling a bit out of control. And the rock star version of people and the people who are really using that potential that I was talking about, have some real clarity about what they're saying yes to, what they're saying no to, about what passion they're going to bring to what they're doing. And so, if I'm mostly only using about sixty percent of my potential when I go to work or when I'm in my business, what else are we really capable of? So, just giving ourselves that time, that whitewall thinking. I often say to people if I'm speaking at events or in coaching sessions, when was the last time you had a brand-new thought about your business or yourself? When was the very last time you can catch yourself and remember the moment of going wow why haven't we thought of that before? And if you're not carving out the space to be living and breathing in your business and passionate, and you're not locked away in the studio sometimes like a rock star, those moments won't come. And they're really important moments in.

Nadia: Question. When did you handle the push though. Because for my business illness it's number one probably number one. They have just caught up.

Terence: We should all answer that question. For me this morning.

Lisa: What did you do?

Terence: This morning, I was reviewing who. What are the first things I was doing was kind of set down and I was watching some videos. I was doing a little bit of learning. And doing a bit of working on my business. Looking at refining who my perfect client is, what type of thing. And really, just kind of putting thought into that. So, for me, my business coaching as well. So, it's a relatively new business for me to be. StrategiQ Corporation has been going for nearly 12 months, nearly first year.

Lisa: Right. Well, that’s big.

Terence: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, congratulations. Yeah.

Terence: Survived all myself.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: What’s your?

Lisa: Congrats to you.

Nadia: What's your fresh thought for your business?

Lisa: So. Well, sorry…

Nadia: Well nobody know…

Lisa: So, this morning. So, my days, as you can imagine, are very full. I very rarely get an opportunity to be bored. In fact, I think that sounds wonderful. When people say I’m so bored on weekend. I’m like, what's that like? Tell me. But what I am very disciplined about is taking little moments of time for me to see if those new thoughts to come. So even today, I was up early. I was coaching a client in America on the phone this morning. If you look at my Instagram, this morning in my life feed, I actually stopped at a lookout looking out over the ocean. I turned off my phone. I set the timer for five minutes and I just sat there and closed my eyes with the sun and I just breathed. I just did that breathing and just being in the moment and just. Someone call it meditation but for me just allowing things to flow. Like same, nice thoughts that come across. And then I opened my eyes and the time went off, and I looked out at the beautiful ocean. And it's actually the first moment, I feel a little bit emotional about this, that I just had this moment of going Oh my God, I think I'm actually an author. Like I think, I hadn’t really. Since the book kind of, I saw it for the first time on Friday, went out for dinner with the kids on Friday night and celebrated And my friends were dropping in and beautiful people have sent flowers, and it's all very lovely. But I hadn't had that five minutes to just be with myself and just do the nice breathing. And so, I took a photo of the beautiful view and put it on Instagram and just when taking a minute before I start what is a really big day. Here with you guys this morning and things on for the rest of the day. So, how do I not stop to do that? I don't know when that moment would have come actually. And it sounds like a small thing and it's a bit wonky actually. I was sitting in the car going on I’m a legend, check me out high-fiving myself.

Terence: I think that’s. I mean I think it's a really. Sometimes you have to just stop and go these actually what I've done. I achieved something. And I think entrepreneurs, we can’t beat ourselves up a lot because it's like yeah, I've done that, I've got to move on to something else. But sometimes you just actually got to appreciate what you've, what you've been through to get where you are.

Lisa: Yeah. Can we talk about that for a minute?

Terence: Absolutely.

Lisa: Because I think for people in small business, anyone who is entrepreneurial or anyone who is in a leadership type role, I find, if you go into that high-performance category of someone who is going hard at something at life, you are often your own worst self critic.

Terence: Yes.

Lisa: Don't you think?

Terence: Yeah.

Lisa: Like most of the conversations I have with people who are doing really well, they walk into my office for a coaching session and start with I've got a long list to say at least. A long list of things I've got to work through that I don't know how I missed that, and all the things I'm doing wrong, or my partner's really frustrated with me, I'm working too much. And we immediately go to the staff that is not working or that we want to be hard on ourselves about. Which you know you just rise Terence. And I think that creates a lot of noise for people.

Terence: A lot of energy. It's like this energy that they kind of losing thinking about things that maybe they could approach in a completely different way, maybe it doesn't even matter to begin with. And maybe they just need to focus on something else rather than focusing on the problem. And I had a very similar conversation with a client of mine a week ago. And he said I've got, he met that all these things that he hadn't done yet. And this is a guy that's more than doubled his revenue in the last six months, right?

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: So, I just had to remind him of that and say but hang on, this is what you've achieved. And he said oh, now you put it that way. I could think about it a bit differently. So, yeah. I absolutely agree. We've just got to learn to maybe celebrate our wins.

Lisa: Yes, I love that. Yeah. I think it's really important. To celebrate all of the things that we're doing well. And I think it's very Australian culture too actually. That we, we're meant to be humble. Don't talk about being too good. Don't be a tosser. Do you know that word Nadia?

Terence: Definitely don’t be a tosser.

Lisa: Definitely don’t be a tosser. We should. That's what we should call the podcast. From today. But there's a spectrum here, right? Like there's shades of grey and I don't mean anything weird by that term.

Nadia: Oh, but please do.

Terence: That was in the book too so that’s alright. That’s alright.

Lisa: No actually I do make that references but it’s not about...

Nadia: It’s my favorite part when you present it, you just actually talked about going on a date. And that was your first date after drought.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: And I’m, that’s when I…

Lisa: Hang on. I didn’t talk about droughts in this book.

Terence: No.

Nadia: Not drought.

Terence: No. That wasn’t in the book.

Nadia: I've been on one of your stage performances.

Lisa: Yes, I know.

Nadia: You invited me. The best part, you just so absolutely innocent. You said when you go on a date, do you have to have sex?

Lisa: Yeah. How does this work?

Nadia: How does it work.

Lisa: What are the rules?

Nadia: It was so funny. And I’m just like I don’t know what’s wrong. And everybody sitting were looking and said did she just said that?

Lisa: Yes. I had a lot to learn, a lot to learn. When you've only been in one relationship your whole adult life. Because I've met my ex-husband when I was just 17, it is quite something to go on your, learning to date when you're in your 40s. That's a whole different podcast.

Terence: Yeah, that is. That's like a series of five episodes.

Lisa: That's actually the next book.

Nadia: Well it's kind of Sex in the City of multiple podcast.

Terence: That would be called Meet Me First.

Lisa: That’s really good. I’ll call the publisher.

Terence: Register the domain actually, before anyone does.

Lisa. Yeah, that makes sense.

Nadia: And my experience, coming back to our fascinating conversation, which for some reason was skipped. For me being in the business what I did notice is like jumping on the train and suddenly everything, events and nice highlights and everything, you just still going. You go. You don't have time. This is not your stop. You don't hop out. And that is that reason you shake hands. You just watching it register what you have achieved, next, next, next. That's how I found it was a wild ride for me. And it's been a few years and I only now start thinking hang on the second what's going on? And that's why I wanted to do this Terence and when I did, this came out to have shooting something. This is creative me. Because being an accountant I had to be creative with my clients, not in a bad sense, in a good sense. I do not lie as you know. Arrange things in their favour. But, however, I just did notice that a lot of people do not stoop to breath like me and they recognise these things. And in the end, they desensitized to life. And when you desensitize, you stop producing good ideas for your business. This is what happening, you overfed, you overstimulated, overfed with events and so many achievements and everything that you stop registering them. That's how I found myself being a little bit numb from so many things happening around. But anyway, I'm alive again.

Lisa: You are alive.

Nadia: And she's back.

Lisa: And she’s back. You definitely. I think when you speak to people in, particularly in small to medium enterprise, they’re tired a lot. It's a big job. Particularly if it's your capital, you're responsible for people. You've got to be paid, they've got mortgages to pay and it's a really big responsibility to be in business. And I think if you don't structure in your place to rejuvenate, it will bite you later. Because it won't naturally ever come. All businesses have peaks and troughs. But in this day and age, I speak to very few business owners that say we know that we'll have downtime and there won't be anything to do. It's really aren’t only over Christmas. And I'm old enough to remember a time when everything would shut down over December and January. And now that's really only the traders. It's really only traders who do that. So, everybody's going hard a lot and no one is going to tap on the shoulder and say hey you've been running really fast and hard, you need to take some time. So, I have been quite strategic about how I feel to that stuff in. Do you want to hear about the coolest thing I ever did to that?

Nadia: Yes, please do so.

Lisa: So, I actually took my children out of school and went and lived in Italy for a term. And it was just, I do high-five myself for that. It was a really fun, super cool experience. And it took me about a year to sort of have that plan in place. Because obviously when you've got a consulting business or coaching practice, you’ve got all of these things happening, you need to know that your business can run without you. And that's kind of scary because if you're the primary person generating income, what will happen if I'm not there? What if something goes wrong? There's all of those things to make sure that. And so that was a really great experience for me to say do I have the right people around me? How do I set up the business? And the feedback that I got from clients was devastating which was you’re not that important Lisa, have a great time in Italy. We’ll all go out and do our thing and see you when you get back. And I had set things up so that I could still do coaching calls and things from wherever I was in the world. And the children and I, my three little people, we had this time to live just outside of Florence and wake up and say oh let's go to Chink ó Terif for the day. And so, I shared that story not to be, to make it sound glamorous because let's face it Italy is. And I did eat carbs every day and maybe have one most days. But because when we just do a little bit of planning, and when we have some clarity about the goal and we understand the benefits of taking that time, that was where I first started writing my book. It was where I had some new thoughts and clarity about what phase two of my business would look like which we were talking about a little bit before the podcast. It was when I was able to let go of mother guilt and say okay so in the build-up of this business, there's a lot of travel that I've had to do and there's school events that I've not been able to go to and things like that. But every day now for three months, I'm going to wake up with my children and we will have adventures together. And so, it was really healing. It wasn't just about going to Italy. It was this really strategically planned experience with benefits that I hadn't even thought about. I think we all deserve that, to have that time.

Terence: It's great. I was reading in the book. The question that I've got from that story is really, what impact do you think that trip and that whole experience had on your life and your business?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So, the impact on my life was really personal because…

Nadia: But you did not need Giovani.

Lisa: Or Stephano? No, I did not. And I’m likely when you're travelling with three small children to be swept off your feet by a good-looking tall Italian man. Although I…

Nadia: They’re not tall.

Lisa: Oh. Yeah, okay. But I think for me personally and I've had this conversation with lots of single parents actually, can you be totally invested in a business and work on a global scale and they are really connected parent? And what easily showed me was that the answer to that is yes. I do travel a lot and I do work really really hard but I feel so connected with my children. I know that my children know they are so loved by me. And it's not about how much time I'm just in the house. And so, Italy was really nice validation that I'm doing a few things right and I haven't mess them up too much. And in the business, it was significant because I had run pretty hard for close to seven years. And the business was beautifully established and I didn't actually know that until I went to Italy. And had the evidence points that it was a good run. And that I have the most talented and skilled coaches that work with me and actually don't really need me. And they’re quite capable of creating great coaching experiences for our clients and things without me having to be there. So, and I also just created that space in the business for me to look at stuff. This will sound boring but it it's important. I find myself logging into Dropbox and just looking at this huge amount of content that we have and then have some new thinking to go do I want to do something with that? Do we have an online platform that's sitting right here? I've never even thought about that because looking at computer screens does make me want to stab myself in the eye. That is there’s a business opportunity. Should I email someone? And so, it was quite revolutionary to have that time and a lot of things changed. Plus, I ate pizza a lot.

Nadia: But you also walked a lot so you walked off those carbs.

Lisa: Yeah, this is probably digressing but I actually lost weight. Because I think what happens, I know you've had a podcast with Mr. Craig Harper, he would be able to explain this far better than me, but when you sleep really well, that Italian lifestyle of sleeping in light and making sure you get your eight to ten hours. When you sleep and when you walk and exercise and your body gets that physical stimulation consistently every day, something happens. Like your body kind of shifts. And the Italian culture is very much like that. In Australia, we have all our fancy leggings that we put on to go walking so we look amazing. In Italy they go out for a one hour walk in their high-heeled boots and skinny-legged jeans before they have their ten o'clock dinner. And it's just it's part of the culture to be active and. So, yeah. It was an incredible experience.

Nadia: Well this is something you have experienced it what majority of business owners dream of and they never make it. How many of them, it's too little to late. The kids are grown up. They missed this opportunity. So, you grab these opportunities by its tail. You grab it in the right time. What I will say here is very interesting concept of how to plan a holiday is buy tickets and make it happen. What you have done, you remember the planning process and it was amazing to hear this out. But this planning process helped you to assess your business sustainability. Lisa stepped out of the business for few minutes Returned back and the business was fine.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: The business actually flourished because...

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: The business was probably better of.

Lisa: There's a lesson in that for all of us.

Nadia: It flourished because the amount of system and support you had to put in prior to it and the planning went into. It just had to boom. That’s what happened. And a lot of people probably need to step out of the business from time to time to assess the strength of the business. And this is probably the most useful tip…

Terence: And the weaknesses.

Lisa: Just plan it.

Terence: And the weakness as well.

Lisa: If it doesn’t work and you’re out there…

Terence: They’ve showed themselves. Yeah.

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah. Which is important…

Nadia: What’s the biggest weakness was? Just tell us. Come on share.

Lisa: The biggest weakness? There were a few things that probably felt hard. One was just not being across everything. Because I wasn't in the detail when I got back there. I'm actually not. In fact, I, detail and process stuff is, that's not my strength. But I do it because it's required to serve my business. So, I don't feel like I naturally want to be in everything and control everything. But when I came back, I certainly did feel like there were things that we're getting missed because I didn't know what was in transit, what new conversations might have been happening, what opportunities we might be missing because of course we can often feel like no one's going to drive our business like we do. But there's not a specific example of that. It was just this feeling that I carried for a couple of months after I got back.

Nadia: That’s small price to pay.

Lisa: Yeah, I think that was okay. And of course, you're always managing cash flow, right? So, when or in front of clients might say you that can be a trigger for invoices to get paid and things like that. So, when you're out of the country, that same relationship might not be happening. So, there were certainly things that felt a bit different. So, I came back and I was following up on some stuff. But really, nothing fell apart. Like nothing broke. And in fact, what I learned was that I had some people in the business. I had my right chuckle of mind. And Sal. And Nadia you know my mum was helping me operate. Sandra has been the operations manager in the business since I started. And they were really just in everything and they cared for the business like it was theirs. When you've got the right people around you, it's like hey…

Nadia: It's their business. You guys are a team. It was one team member needed time off and they just supported.

Lisa: Yes.

Nadia: That's what, how I felt. That's how it came across.

Lisa: That's a really nice thing, way to think about. They wanted me to have that time.

Nadia: They did. And they’re very hand-on and stressed that everything goes accordingly. The last thing they don’t want to bother you. And that's what came across.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: What it brings us to the point for every business owner, should have approach. I find myself. When people tell me that their working for me, I don't like this. I don't like to this working for me. I like the concept working for the client. And also, in the same boat. I just tell my people that I'm just the sucker who took a risk and has to pay your wages. That’s all it is. Being boss of somebody, it's a nonsense concept in modern world. That's how I feel. Hierarchy doesn't work for me. And that's why I say you work with me and not for me. And we work for the client. If we have idea and service. And what’s your thought about that? Am I taking so far?

Lisa: No, I think that's a really smart thing because people love to feel empowered. Nobody, not very many people like to be told what to do.

Nadia: But I don't say it from a manipulative point of view of making them feel empowered. What I do tell them that the focus of it's working for the boss brings this funny behaviour or goodwill, badwill. And I want them on a higher level of moral development where they actually have a goal working for.

Lisa: Yeah. When we feel like we are part of something that is bigger than us, that has to work to the advantage of the business. And the other thing I like about what you say it is, we are here to serve our clients. As entrepreneurs and business owners, I think some of us make the mistake early on of thinking that running our own business will give us lots of freedom and will be our own boss. And I remember thinking that. And in fact, now I just have lots of people I'm accountable to. Because I have clients that really matter to the business so I just have more of them I think. And so, I love that concept Nadia of we are here to serve our client. And that has to be at the core of how we make decisions, and how we serve each other. I also think that it's important for us to understand when we're running the business, the difference between managing our business and leading our business. And I think what you're talking about is about that leadership part of it, right? So, I will say to coaching clients well is that a management issue or a leadership issue? And some of them absolutely get that concept and do it really well and for other people they go oh well hang on let me just break that down. So…

Terence: Some people actually don't understand the difference.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, not that they don't understand. It’s just, it all goes together, right? Because if you're the person who is the managing director or the CEO or you're wearing all those hats and it's big, right? So, it all kind of can blend in. But it's strategic and clever to step back and say is this where I need to be a manager in my business? And by that, I mean it's about process. What's working? What are the results that we need? Management is very much about how things run, what policies we have. Or does this require me to be a leader? Which is about my people. So, how am I empowering my people? How my sharing the vision with them? How am I engaging with them in a way that says they make a difference in what we do. So, the management versus leadership stuff is really important for people in business because I think most of us are naturally good at one of those but not both. And that's a real challenge. If you've got a pretty lean structure in your business, I personally, the leadership pace is my joy. I love to have conversations with my people about what they want to contribute and how they're adding value, and what we're doing for our clients and anything around their growth, the management pays. Like when someone hands me an expense form, I literally groan out loud.

Nadia: I know.

Lisa: You know. Nadia will often jump me emails and have meetings and say well can you get me that paperwork and I'll go is that required? So, it's really important, as we grow and evolve, to make sure we're rounding out both of those. What management skills do I need for my business to really be successful and what is the leadership requirements that are needed by me for my business to get to wherever I've wanted to get to?

Nadia: Quite often, we have tandem of husband and wife in the business. And wife would be a manager and husband would be leader. But they would not understand that they would actually misinterpret their roles. And while she's managing she would think she's a leader. And husband would think otherwise that his bit. That's an interesting thing. Leader for me is an inspiration there is and inspiration but also ability to commit people. You said a lot of people go to these beautiful workshops and you would be running them as well, and get inspired. And then it wears off.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: Because they don't have and you pointed out they don't go into commitment mode. So, commitment this this is what differs any success from just having spill of yeah, we all, will do that, then yeah than a year.

Lisa: So, you talked about how leadership can be about inspiration. I think the flipside of that is management is about information. Managers are great, and should be great, at getting information out. What people need to know? How we keeping people safe? What are the results we're going for? Have we got the right processes in place? And our leaders should absolutely be creating that inspiration. Now, I think the challenge that you're picking up on their Nadia, is that when people feel inspired the impact of that is that they feel quite motivated and motivation is lovely, isn't it?

Terence: Yeah.

Lisa: I love a bit of motivation. I really enjoy it. I normally it for about five minutes. When you get that adrenaline rush or, and it passes really quickly. Every Monday, I'm going to be alcohol-free for the week and have no cakes or carbs and I'm going to eat really well and go to the gym every single morning. And by Tuesday, my motivation has passed. And so, it's the commitment, right? And so, a lot of my clients actually have a commitment strategy and it's normally something that just sits on one page. It's not big it's not complicated. But when my motivation passes, what is it that I'm committed to? Whether it's a daily, weekly, or monthly kind of commitment. Which also just kind of raises the point I think about how our business owners are looking after themselves. Don’t you think? I think I find that people in business often can be brilliant at looking after their people and they're on the verge of a heart attack. Have you seen that as a coach?

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: I have seen a heart attack.

Lisa: Yeah. Right. It’s a bit scary.

Nadia: I have seen people who could not be resuscitated after conversation with some people. So, I think was…

Lisa: That’s quite traumatic.

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: Sorry I took you downtown. It’s just what Russian do. I’m sorry about that Lisa. So, we all going to die that’s inevitable. And that’s typical. We have to mention that. But what I do like these things spot on, I now revamping completely the way I am advising my client because they might have all these plans and goals and margins want to be moved, and we're working on margins and everything. And then I look at their face and I spot their high cholesterol I become a very good GP. So, their biggest asset is actually their bodies.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: Their bodies and their minds.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: How far they’re going to propel them and their margins will mean nothing.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: The insurance policies will go to their kids and kids will become lazy and corrupted. That's all will happen. Let's just face it. But what is really important we need to do now is focusing on your health.

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: That's basically…

Lisa: Well you can buy almost anything.

Nadia: But mental health is…

Lisa: But. Yeah. But a new body, and a new head, and a new heart really. There are definitely things I could be doing better with this, by the way myself, like this is a real challenge for me. But what I am really clear about is if I am okay, everyone else will be okay. The kids will be okay, stuff will be okay, the business will run. So, if I'm not okay and there's something going wrong with me, it's not a luxury to stop and take care of myself. It's actually my responsibility. I have clients who put me on a plane and fly me to America to speak to people and fly people in from Asia and all over the place. I can't just, basic. Like I can't just go I'm feeling a bit off, or my energy is lower, I've lost my voice or. I actually have a responsibility to eat well, and to rest, and to look after me and make sure I'm getting what I need. Because otherwise, I'm not really honouring the trust that all these people have put in me. So, I don't see it as an indulgence. I go there are times when I have to say no and times when I have to stop. And there's all kinds of little things that I had in place. I even get just a good massage.

Terence: Do you think that maybe, sometimes we're measuring the wrong things? Like as entrepreneurs, as business owners, just as people in general, in life, the things that we measure. What do we measure? We measure money, we measure time, we measure assets, and measure all these things. One thing that I haven’t heard many people measuring is their energy.

Lisa: Yeah, I love that.

Terence: Like how much energy you actually have and what creates energy for you? Because some of the things that you're talking about here, I think you're talking about really doing some things that you love. And there was one thing in the book, I'll come back to the energy thing in a second. One thing in the book that I noticed was missing and that was work-life balance. Right? And I actually, I love the fact that it was missing. Right? Because like work-life balance, what even is that?

Lisa: Yeah. It’s kind a real thing.

Terence: If you put that energy into things that give you more energy,

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: that's all you need to do.

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: And I think that’s a lot of what we're having this conversation what it's about. But if you eat well, that gives you more energy. If you do work and you work with people that you enjoy, then I'll give you more energy. You spend some time with your family,

Lisa: Yeah.

Terence: that’ll give you energy. For me, I love to go out for, I want to eat recently well, but I love to go mountain biking. I surf. I do all this other stuff and I spend time with the kids. I didn't get to go for a mountain bike on the weekend because, I don’t know, the weather was really…

Lisa: It wasn’t really confined.

Terence: Really bad. I think we had fifty millimeters of…

Lisa: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Terence: So, and now I'm kind of feeling like I really need to get out there, lacking that energy. And I think sometimes we underestimate the value and the impact of actually doing those things that give us more energy. And we're just kind of forget to do it.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I call it the concept of being successfully unhappy. To the outside world, there's a whole lot of success that's going on for so many of us. People who have that nice car, and a nice house, and their office looks like that, and they've got this many kids, and they've done this kind of study, and they went on that holiday last year, and it all looks quite good. But there is something that's missing whether it's on happiness or their health or the energy stuff that you're referencing Terence, I think is so important. And I love the comment that you made around. There are certain people that we can go and hang out with and we know we walk away feeling more energized. We feel better. And there are people we can hang out with the energy vampires who we know it's going to be hard, and how’s your day? It was difficult and how was your way? That was hard to say, there are those people in the world. So, you're right. I deliberately don't talk about work-life balance and I also don't talk about time management because there is no such thing as managing time. We can only manage ourselves and what we do with that twenty-four hours. So, if we did measure our energy, I think there's probably some things that most of us would do differently.

Terence: Change it.

Lisa: And yeah. We also, I don’t know that we pay enough attention. And again, this is something I'm really aware of for myself is that our body and our brain are sending us messages all the time about you need to rest, or you need to stop, or you waking-up during the night. Constantly our body is communicating to us and we often don't listen until we wake up and feel like we cannot drag ourselves out of bed. Or oh I must book a holiday. We kind of wait until we are a bit desperate. The same thing applies I think when people are looking for a job. I always say to people you should be looking for your next job or your next business opportunity when you're super happy where you are because most of us wait until we want to sell our business, when we're exhausted, or we want to go for that next promotion or that next job because we hate the leader we're working for. And by then, we're tired. So, the energy being unchaining into that I think is a really or some point for you to make.

Terence: Yeah. It becomes too late I think.

Nadia: Oh, I'm full of silly ideas so creating energy moment I stuck it under the armpit every morning and decide what you want to do with it. So, probably that’s what I think my take from the podcast will be. But anyway. I’ll talk to the engineering team.

Terence: Something to give you more energy. I mean for me the podcast gives me energy. I really enjoy having these conversations. It's emotionally, mentally stimulating.

Nadia: And how will the people on podcast we invite?

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Nadia: I just…

Lisa: Except the one you got today.

Nadia: To be honest, it’s just like where else would you find an excuse? How else would we find, Terence and myself find an excuse to talk to you on such a deep level?

Lisa: Yeah.

Nadia: And then you talk to our listeners and this is what this podcast is about. Connecting to these, I call them brain trust of the nation. I don't know. What else you are. In the business community, you guys are leaders, your inspirations. Without any flattery, it's just some think what you moving the economy, you're moving everything around you and…

Lisa: And they’ve been brave. I think it requires a real level of courage to go into business.

Nadia: You must be reckless. Because, how do you call it? Is it reckless?

Lisa: No, I'm not reckless.

Nadia: Yeah. But it’s just like…

Terence: It should be recklessness.

Lisa: Maybe that.

Nadia: I don’t know. When I was listening to you, Sorry I was thinking what I did when I was desperate, I’m going to become a cleaner. But when I’m more desperate, I’m going and setup my own business. It’s just like with my business partner had the very big support. But going on your own, gee this is scary.

Lisa: Yeah. Although, you also don't know what you don't know when you are kind of starting out on your own.

Nadia: That’s like…

Lisa: That is a fame I should pay attention to for myself. You don't know. I didn't know what I didn't know. So, it is. But I often haven't felt that way. I think when you have a good plan Nadia and you have structure, and you surround yourself with really great people who can give you good advice and tell you the truth, it is kind of a bit of one day at a time. If I look at my diary between now and Christmas, I actually have to take some deep breaths. But when I think about one day at a time and that I've got clarity, and I'm very clear about what I say yes to, then it feels like okay. Things like doing this podcast, they’re actually, that can be easy things to say no to because they take time, it does take energy.

Nadia: You gave to Terence.

Lisa: But, when you have the purpose that we talked about earlier in this conversation, and you say so if a driver for me is finding opportunities to give back to people, then this feels like such a small thing. It doesn't even go any way to recognising all the people who invested in me. So, I go if I can give an hour or two of my time and share a few thoughts, and there's a couple of people who I might think about that or I'm going to have a conversation about that, that just like fills my heart with joy. Like it's just such a small way of being able to pay it forward. Because across my career, I have just met the most exceptional people who throw out these little bits of wisdom or agree to have a coffee with you, or perhaps mentor you. And I've always wanted to be able to share some of that. So, I think it's a privilege to be.

Nadia: Absolutely. I'm on other side of the spectrum. People feel sorry for me, she doesn't even speak proper English. We will give you our time. So, thank you so much for coming in and giving this. I do have a lot of self like you but in a different sort of arcus. And I, I was very fortunate in Australia. I think Australia is a country of opportunity. From my perspective, from the national perspective I suppose, we are a bit tidily and complacent. You were spot on when you started our podcast. We still, there’s also vast resources available here. We have make very poor choices of not to read, not to exercise, not to eat healthy and not to make a space in their business but we get caught up in this mouse wheel. What’s you call it when the hamster run around, hamster wheel?

Lisa: The hamster wheel.

Terence: Yeah.

Nadia: Yeah, exactly. That’s what the majority of small businesses look like. Hamster wheel. From helps the bills from both those stressful. And this is the result of choices we are making. So, I am, would love to say huge thank you and just wrap up with for our listener because I know how busy you are. I don't want to abuse anymore of your time. Welcome Terence to step in anytime but it's just about having, to me was stood out. You had a very clear vision of you want to do. A lot of people travel blind and then think things will fall. They are not going to happen. There is no miracle. You do have to know where you're going. Otherwise how will you get there if you don't know where you are to go? Another thing is reality check. You did emphasize and a lot of people are illusional. They’re illusional about what they can do. They’re illusional about what market wants from them. And they very, you say happy to be illusional for quite number of years. And they’re surprised why.

Terence: You mean delusional?

Nadia: Delusional. Yes. Sorry, did I say something wrong? And just going through businesses. And also I like the idea successfully unhappy. That’s a hidden, quite a lot of, there’s a lot of hidden poetry when people get themselves into mortgages and Kaiser and everything and the loan. And people, face wise, it says just huge success. When you look at their bank account, it's misery. It's for me it's translation to accountant’s slang would be. And you put big emphasis on structure, put a structure for rejuvenation. Any business owner has to have structure for rejuvenation because your garbage in, garbage out. That's what happens. You’re having wanted to all quality and sometimes you have to produce less but with high quality. And this what comes to your thoughts as well. Mindset. Love your managers versus leaders. Yes. Who is, who we need to understand. And this is what I find amongst business owners biggest confusion. Who is managing business and who is leading the business? Usually this is contradictory set of skill. Set of skill would require from managers a person who would come would very mythological, process driven while leader would come more big picture of you. That's what..

Terence: The manager’s the operator. The leadership to me is create the vision, assemble the team, remove obstacles.

Nadia: Yes. And that’s what comes around. And I love this motivation is coming to me like a team rush. And it wears off very quickly without commitment. And you have to have a plan and commitment plan. Love this commitment strategy idea as well. Think about it. Let's create in businesses commitments strategy, what it looks like. What is it we’re committed every day to do? And what I’m committed every hour to do is just take my eyes from the screen and look in the distance just to a little bit improve my vision. And I do need to create energy moment. That's my take for today. Anything else would you like to add?

Terence: There’s one thing that we touched on. Let’s just go back to that just really quickly before we finish up. And that is risk, right? You talked about risk. And I think that, I look at that a little bit differently. What's the risk of doing nothing? Like what happens? And I think you touched on it in the book. Like what happens if you actually do nothing? And that’s the risk is that you probably have to stay where you are and that's going to be a lot worse than if you actually go and do something to start the business which I think. One of the other things I think we've really covered off well here is that starting a business is difficult. Expect it to be tough. Like stop going in expecting there to be short cuts everywhere and you can just, it’s really gonna be easy going to start, making a whole lot of money from day one. But expect it to be tough. But the risk of doing nothing is far greater than the risk of actually going and doing something. That to me is the message that I'm getting from it.

Nadia: And another message I did find, business is all about fears. You are fearful, you jump into the unknown. What I did like is your take on the risk is get curious. Are you designed to handle it? Are you designed to survive? It's almost an adrenaline rush going through the hardships and knowing that maybe you won’t get out of it. But you’re very, but you’re forever curious to find out it. How else do know it without trying? That's what I loved about curiosity.

Terence: Yeah. So, on that note, Lisa thanks a lot for spending the time with us and helping us to increase our energy levels.

Lisa: That was so fun, it was really fun. Yeah, I love being here. And thank you so much for having me.

Terence: Yeah. And we appreciate our copies of your book.

Lisa: Yes, Read Me First.

Terence: Read Me First. So, how do people find you, find out about you you, connect with you?

Lisa: Thank you for asking. So, there is a web page you can go to readmefirst.com.au. If anyone wants to order the book, it'll be in bookstores from August. You'll be able to pick up copies in store. If you'd like to fire me on Instagram and see the journey that I'm on with my team and what we're doing with our business, please go to Instagram and look up whoamiprojects with an s on the end, whoamiprojects. And if you'd love an overview and to learn a bit more about what kind of operating in the world and what my business looks like, you can actually head to lisastephensonconsulting.com.au. Stevenson is with a P-H. lisastephensonconsulting.com.au. And that's the place where I actually track what is happening within our global consulting business, what's happening with the book, our coaching practice and also the speaking that I do. So, would love to connect with anyone that listen to this and hear what they thought. And I'm happy to share more about what we do.

Terence: And of course, we'll put that in the show notes for the podcast and we'll share some stuff around on Instagram and on our website as well. So, thanks a lot.

Lisa: Thank you.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to the unfair advantage project from more curated resources. Visit us at unfairadvantage.com.